From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:3f4c:: with SMTP id d73-v6mr3288514ita.30.1530823122641; Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:38:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:c6ca:: with SMTP id w193-v6mr1647052oif.1.1530823122417; Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder4.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!u78-v6no2943970itb.0!news-out.google.com!l67-v6ni3034itl.0!nntp.google.com!u78-v6no2943969itb.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 13:38:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <235b3f29-becd-476c-9efd-3c4bf6ebfad5@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=213.108.152.51; posting-account=bMuEOQoAAACUUr_ghL3RBIi5neBZ5w_S NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.108.152.51 References: <856189aa-fa00-4960-929e-174f352310ad@googlegroups.com> <2718c8d4-5f35-4fd8-a1aa-1e60069a7a5d@googlegroups.com> <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> <3701bf07-89a5-4cb0-a704-5aebb589ca79@googlegroups.com> <2f5e4ce0-94e8-4b94-9da7-045ec90a9b22@googlegroups.com> <18554067-1382-4b43-a832-2d27aa5117d7@googlegroups.com> <8dc19505-b68a-403c-a164-f1de1864f3f1@googlegroups.com> <559657f8-bbf4-4a70-9449-f85bc98d6c6b@googlegroups.com> <590d4672-4aef-42a5-823c-57ccd291115a@googlegroups.com> <8de6b5ba-25ab-4d46-b80c-1544f43a9b05@googlegroups.com> <235b3f29-becd-476c-9efd-3c4bf6ebfad5@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <03e41844-c229-4c56-87aa-372232337281@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Teaching C/C++ from Ada perspective? From: Maciej Sobczak Injection-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 20:38:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53676 Date: 2018-07-05T13:38:42-07:00 List-Id: > The (unacceptable) corollary to C++11's =E2=80=9Cas-if=E2=80=9D rule as s= tated: > As long as any portion of a program that has even one undefined behavior,= the =E2=80=A2visible effects=E2=80=A2 can be anything [...] And this is where you contradict yourself. If a) all C++ is one big undefin= ed behavior and b) thus the visible effects can be anything, then the imple= mentation can behave like R1000 [*], which contradicts your statement that = it cannot be done. [*] The problem is - apparently nobody wants it. > When the =E2=80=A2absence of evidence=E2=80=A2 [...] I'm sorry, but I got completely lost in your convoluted elaboration on this= matter. Let's make this discussion more concrete again (if it ever was): can you sh= ow a short (that is, practical for the discussion group) code example that = demonstrates your point (whatever it is)? Please note that I cannot verify = a statement that requires access to the compiler that I cannot use in real = life. (Note to Randy as well) I will *always* prefer a C++ compiler that I have o= ver the Ada compiler that I don't have. And my clients appreciate that choi= ce, too. If you want to compete with C++, you need to do it in practice, not in theo= ry. --=20 Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com