From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:78d0:: with SMTP id p199-v6mr1606564itc.35.1524071321079; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:70d7:: with SMTP id w23-v6mr184877otj.4.1524071320920; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!f63-v6no376863itc.0!news-out.google.com!u64-v6ni6948itb.0!nntp.google.com!f63-v6no376859itc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:08:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <06a8980d-21bb-4067-b22d-7d1f89342948@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a02:c7d:3c35:b000:325a:3aff:fe0f:37a5; posting-account=L2-UcQkAAAAfd_BqbeNHs3XeM0jTXloS NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a02:c7d:3c35:b000:325a:3aff:fe0f:37a5 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <06a8980d-21bb-4067-b22d-7d1f89342948@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <19c7a205-0a82-477b-9254-01af786f467e@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? From: Lucretia Injection-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 17:08:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 3693 X-Received-Body-CRC: 3045956185 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:51601 Date: 2018-04-18T10:08:40-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, 18 April 2018 15:31:26 UTC+1, Dan'l Miller wrote: > Survey: truly how bad is using FSF GNAT in practice? It of course lacks= all the extras and older language editions (e.g., ASIS, Ada1983, Ada1995, = Ada2005, AJIS). And sure, FSF GNAT lags by up to 24 months compared to GNA= T Pro Enterprise/Assurance level; feature-by-feature bugfix-by-bugfix FSF G= NAT lags by less than 12 months when compared to GNAT GPL Community Edition= . FSF GNAT is the only GNAT I use. I have GPL installed, only to test when so= mething won't compile. 12-24 months is a long fucking time for a bugfix. Currently, GNAT has issue= s with C++ binding (not the C import wrap kind, the pragma (CPP_*, *) kind)= . If we're left waiting for something that's that important, and I bet we w= ill be, that's not on, imo. > I think that the real problem with AdaCore is the lack of sub-$1000 non-G= PL annual license for mass-market operating systems on mass-market ISAs, su= ch as Windows, MacOS, Android, and iOS. Looking at some other compiler ven= dors of non-Ada languages, each of them have a sub-$1000 non-GPL license av= ailable: RemObjects $800/year (all target mass-market OSes/ISAs included),= Microsoft $500/year (all mass-market target OSes/ISAs included), Intel $70= 0/year/OS. This is truly not an argument either. Say someone's deciding whether to use= C or Ada and there's this sub =C2=A3/$/=E2=82=AC 1000 compiler for Ada. Th= ey will just go with C, because there's a fucking C compiler everywhere for= nothing. Seriously, look at how many C compilers there actually are. There= 's loads of em, all free. > I am always baffled by why AdaCore doesn't hire an engineer for GNAT on m= ass-market OSes on mass-market ISAs (or even one engineer per each mass-mar= ket OS), because only 150 to 200 $1000 annual licenses would more than full= y cover all costs for that engineer. The likelihood of an even greater qua= ntity of such mass-market annual licenses would be quite high, which implie= s profit instead of break-even. Likewise for other Ada compiler vendors. Other compiler vendor's won't do shit for OSS, the only reason AdaCore do i= s because they started at NYU and was spun out as a separate company, I've = no idea how it became French, tbh.