From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a6b:af1e:: with SMTP id y30-v6mr1620716ioe.7.1526494050553; Wed, 16 May 2018 11:07:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5191:: with SMTP id y17-v6mr86192otg.12.1526494050399; Wed, 16 May 2018 11:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!v8-v6no74747itc.0!news-out.google.com!f20-v6ni13itd.0!nntp.google.com!u74-v6no73636itb.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 11:07:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.233.194; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.233.194 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <87zi1gz3kl.fsf@nightsong.com> <878t8x7k1j.fsf@nightsong.com> <87k1sg2qux.fsf@nightsong.com> <87h8njmk4r.fsf@nightsong.com> <87po27fbv9.fsf@nightsong.com> <87in7x62vw.fsf@nightsong.com> <878t8szdtk.fsf@nightsong.com> <87tvrdhl5v.fsf@nightsong.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1ca35bac-a0a5-4c51-9516-bec6584abe69@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? From: "Dan'l Miller" Injection-Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 18:07:30 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:52374 Date: 2018-05-16T11:07:30-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 11:58:01 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey R. Carter wrote: > On 05/15/2018 11:32 PM, Randy Brukardt wrote: > >=20 > > Surely, bad management is possible with any programming style! And foll= owing > > some programming technique slavishly without understanding why is clear= ly > > the mark of bad management. >=20 > Yes, and the technique they followed slavishly included "shut up and star= t=20 > coding". And it was named Agile. Yikes! It sounds like they missed the whole point of Agile: to get stakeh= olders actually *talking* to each other (verbally in person, respectfully),= instead of blindly throwing something over the cubicle walls at each other= that was banged out on the keyboard heads down shut-up. (I cannot say at all that I am a fervent advocate of Agile in all of its ov= erhyped incarnations. I especially detest the pairing-of-personnel in Extr= eme Programming. The replacement of iterations of well-spoken well-thought= -out requirements documents with =E2=80=9Cstories=E2=80=9D on 3"x5" cards s= eems sophomoric and infantile, and a clear invitation to misinterpretation = but then later a defiant attitude =E2=80=9CI've got it right here in writin= g on a 3x5 card=E2=80=9D (intentionally cryptically tersely, but we'll just= ignore those defects). But worse, the switch from engineering language to= newspaper language (e.g., =E2=80=9Cstories=E2=80=9D; publishing-esque dail= y deadlines; programmers as journalists interviewing the user to get take-a= ways/the-scoop) sends our fading-profession further down the road of newspa= per hacks, from whence the term hacker in tech culture actually historicall= y derives, both linguistically and semantically. But all that being said, = Agile was supposed to get stakeholders actually speaking verbally to each o= ther, not shut-up and bang away blindly on the keyboard.) Tying this back to getting Ada to cross the chasm, Ada's nearly-user-readab= le lucid syntax is actually anathema to the newspaper-hack mentality of Agi= le zealots, because mere-mortal users are not supposed to be allowed into t= he inner-sanctum of the sacred newspaper to see how the sausage is made. O= nly high-priest bona-fide journalists are allowed into the freedom-of-speec= h's inner-sanctum at the newspaper, who decides what is & isn't speech and = what may be freely said in that speech. The same with Agile journalist-pro= grammers harshly interpreting the terse crypto-speak on the 3"x5" cards tha= t were taken as journalist's notes during the journalist's interview/press-= conference with the user. If users could lucidly read Ada source code or a= textual requirements document (instead of, say, C++ crypto-syntax and C++'= s vast amounts of implicit compiler-generated subtle activity in the subtex= t of the C++ source code that never distinctly occupies even a single overt= ASCII character of C++ source code), then any mere-mortal user could have = the newspaper's sacrosanct freedom of speech. And users actually understan= ding source code just isn't allowed in newspaper-journalist-esque Agile. U= sers are only supposed to see the newspaper/program that was published the = next day/week based on the 3x5-card journalistic notes in the user-intervie= w/press-conference, and then users are brow-beaten to complain only around = the edges about small matters, and then only in ways that cannot be refuted= by =E2=80=9COh yeah? Well, you said the opposite on this 3x5 card!=E2=80= =9D Conversely, Microsoft's pre-Agile form of agile can be thought of as Scrum-= cells rethought, where program management are movie directors directing the= production of a movie, dynamically forming go-forth-&-prosper scrum-cells/= cross-functional-teams to go forth and devise a practical solution to each = topic-problem in a short time-duration bringing back their proposed solutio= ns to the movie director's yea or nay, then the personnel are reallocated e= very few hours or every few days to a different scrum-cell to solve a new p= roblem pursuant to making-the-movie/writing-the-program. As it turns out, = writing software and movie-making are very similar, whereas, in hyped Agile= , newspapers don't resemble software development much at all other than hav= ing a keyboard to typewrite on. And I have witnessed this software-develop= ment-as-movie-directing variant actually work quite well at high velocity a= t 2 employers.