From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD, FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b58a:: with SMTP id e132-v6mr6271617iof.87.1530996223994; Sat, 07 Jul 2018 13:43:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:f495:: with SMTP id s143-v6mr3336115oih.7.1530996223808; Sat, 07 Jul 2018 13:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.unit0.net!newsreader5.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!g2-v6no1790307itf.0!news-out.google.com!z3-v6ni4853iti.0!nntp.google.com!d7-v6no4864260itj.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 13:43:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1162d6bf-c226-4089-ae2e-870c7da9c80f@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=213.108.152.51; posting-account=bMuEOQoAAACUUr_ghL3RBIi5neBZ5w_S NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.108.152.51 References: <856189aa-fa00-4960-929e-174f352310ad@googlegroups.com> <2718c8d4-5f35-4fd8-a1aa-1e60069a7a5d@googlegroups.com> <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> <3701bf07-89a5-4cb0-a704-5aebb589ca79@googlegroups.com> <2f5e4ce0-94e8-4b94-9da7-045ec90a9b22@googlegroups.com> <9bb99fb4-b9c7-4516-97b5-da41466e96be@googlegroups.com> <1162d6bf-c226-4089-ae2e-870c7da9c80f@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2f5399b4-518b-4a2e-9941-2ae267d51309@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Teaching C/C++ from Ada perspective? From: Maciej Sobczak Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2018 20:43:43 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 3615 X-Received-Body-CRC: 740069154 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53722 Date: 2018-07-07T13:43:43-07:00 List-Id: > Because Steelman was one of the highest achievements in the history of hu= mankind Did you consider a career in politics or religion or both? :-) > Do you have a suggestion for any other language-agnostic set of requireme= nts that serves as a measuring stick for what is a software-engineering-fac= ilitating programming language and what is not? The measuring stick for me is whether I can convince others or whether othe= rs can convince me. This includes factors that extend beyond any hypothetic= al notion of "purity", or whatever that at the end the industry does not ca= re about. Like "do I have access to compilers for the given language"? Beca= use obviously a language without the compiler cannot be "facilitating" anyt= hing. So I'm rather practice-oriented instead of religion-oriented. > The -man series is clearly language agnostic If it's the set of requirements for the Ada language, then obviously it is = not agnostic. > because no less than 6 quite-different programming languages Nope. All of them wanted to become Ada. > C++ was in a legally-protected zoo of sorts, not subjected to this natura= l selection And this is where I object. The "natural selection" does not happen by comm= ittee. The closest industrial analogy to "natural selection" is the tool ma= rket, where users are ultimate judges. And this is the arena where your his= torical and sentimental links are both impressive and useless. Think about more recent programming languages, which do not have. For some = reason most of them try heavily to resemble C++, but you cannot blame AT&T = for this any longer. Now it's somebody else's fault, but this is how "natur= al selection" works. And, BTW, we were supposed to help the OP, who was asked to teach C++. --=20 Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com