From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,92c39a3be0a7f17d X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-11-14 08:29:07 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr11.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Don" From: "Don" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <9smmcg$r0l$1@news.huji.ac.il> <3BF193F3.5090903@maciejsobczak.com> Subject: Re: Future with Ada X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.142.31.178 Message-ID: <3bf2aad6$1@MAIL.mhogaming.com> X-Original-Trace: 14 Nov 2001 10:33:10 -0700, 205.142.31.178 X-COMPLAINTS: Report abuse to abuse@mhogaming.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.64.207.209 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr11.news.prodigy.com 1005755162 ST000 65.64.207.209 (Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:26:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:26:02 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@[B_@Y\JIFOQTDFRYB@GXLN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:26:02 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:16514 Date: 2001-11-14T16:26:02+00:00 List-Id: > Good idea. The problem is that you can learn and try many different > languages as your own hobby, but when it comes to commerce, you're at > the mercy of big companies, like M$ or Sun. You see, the problem with > Ada (and recently with C++ - its market is shrinking, I think - esp. in > Poland) is that they're *standard* languages. It means, that no company > can close its market with any of those languages. Making compilers of > Ada or C++ just does not pay well if people can migrate with their > software from one compiler's vendor to another. M$ is better off > investing big bucks into the C# development (and marketing), because > once you get into the trap, you belong to them forever. The same is true > for Sun with Java. You will never hear from them that C# and/or Java are > far behind Ada and C++, even if M$ officially admits that C++ is the > most extensively used language in the company (Windows, Office, > Exchange, VStudio, all other stuff). I can bet that Sun still keeps lots > of C/C++ programmers for server and OS development (and Java run-time, > for that matter), too. So where this trend to Java/C# comes from? From > money, of course. And there's a crowd that follows. > Good analysis--this issue has been on my mind for a while. I'd like to add that part of choosing a language is what you, as a developer, can learn. Choosing a standardized general purpose (non-proprietary) language means that you'll learn concepts that you can take with you to other languages. The literature tends to be better: less marketing and hype. More flexibility and control. When I was looking for another language to learn, I considered Java, C# or Ada. I chose Ada because I thought I could get more out of it in the long run. > That's why I'm not so optimistic when it comes to the near future. > Ada is fine (I try to learn it, too), I personally like C++ (and I think > I know quite a bit of it), but don't ask me what I'm doing at work... :-( If C# or Java becomes the lingua franca of programming, I'm confident that knowledge of more flexible non-proprietary languages will help to master these proprietary languages. To a plain VB programmer, a Variant is some mysterious type; to a VB programmer w/ C++ knowledge, it's a glorified union, as simple as that. The problem w/ these marketing machines is that they target the innocent and ignorant. If you have a non-tech client or manager who's been brainwashed by all that rubbish, there's an opportunity to sell the virtues of your prefered tool. If it is in fact better, the benefits will ring true. If the benefits are tangible, but your audience is unconvinced, then you might question whether you're at the right place. So basically, (1) Find a place that values your opinion, might consider letting you do some programming in different languages(maybe small or non-tech). (2) Become an advocate. I became interested in Ada when someone posted a logical, persuasive post in the c++.moderated ng. More advocacy->more programmers->more visibility->more jobs. -Don