From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:4708:: with SMTP id t8-v6mr4771862itb.48.1530525533419; Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:58:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:1a18:: with SMTP id a24-v6mr2677202oia.5.1530525533259; Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.linkpendium.com!news.linkpendium.com!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!u78-v6no2900791itb.0!news-out.google.com!p13-v6ni4480itf.0!nntp.google.com!d7-v6no2931247itj.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 02:58:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=194.39.218.10; posting-account=3cDqWgoAAAAZXc8D3pDqwa77IryJ2nnY NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.39.218.10 References: <856189aa-fa00-4960-929e-174f352310ad@googlegroups.com> <2718c8d4-5f35-4fd8-a1aa-1e60069a7a5d@googlegroups.com> <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <47d4ddac-8dae-426c-9096-88d032c59cb0@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Teaching C/C++ from Ada perspective? From: Marius Amado-Alves Injection-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 09:58:53 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53499 Date: 2018-07-02T02:58:53-07:00 List-Id: << #define begin { #define end } >> Thanks, Maciej, you've just put a big smile in my face:-) Kouaoua, I'm afraid I am even more radical than Maciej: the least bad C++ s= tyle possible has nothing to do with Ada. It takes a formidable C++ programmer to write in the least bad C++ style po= ssible. Like one in a million. Because it is necessary to understand the en= tire language (one in a thousand programmers), and then be able to pick the= least bad idioms all the time (one in a thousand of the former thousandth)= . /* I myself used to be a (forced) knowledgeable C++ programmer, but that wa= s some time ago, and since then C++ has grown in its kludginess beyond my c= apacity. However I'm am fortunate(?) enough to have colleagues in at least = the first thousandth, heading for the second. */ Sorry to say, Kouaoua, you're in a very difficult spot. Teaching the whole = of C++ (necessary for the least bad style) is a doomed endeavour unless it = is a 4-semester programme or so. For one semester you must choose a fragment (probably classes), and relegat= e style issues to "further reading". (Whereas in Ada you can take a fragment and keep the good style.) In sum, and to the point, I see nothing you can transpose from Ada. Except, maybe, promote a bit of Ada, in between the lines, a propos problem= s that arise (a soft, maybe feasible, version of Luke's unfeasible proposal= of turning the table completely).