From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:f30f:: with SMTP id t15-v6mr2686001ith.22.1526070000271; Fri, 11 May 2018 13:20:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5511:: with SMTP id l17-v6mr333630oth.14.1526069999845; Fri, 11 May 2018 13:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.68.MISMATCH!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!v8-v6no739648itc.0!news-out.google.com!b185-v6ni958itb.0!nntp.google.com!v8-v6no739643itc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 13:19:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <88ae8672-543e-4943-b388-f92ab551198f@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=198.135.236.252; posting-account=ENgozAkAAACH-stq5yXctoDQeZQP2E6J NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.135.236.252 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <87k1su7nag.fsf@nightsong.com> <87po2la2qt.fsf@nightsong.com> <87in8buttb.fsf@jacob-sparre.dk> <3f7a7f76-c5eb-4cba-9051-6b5dfeeb906c@googlegroups.com> <88ae8672-543e-4943-b388-f92ab551198f@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5d07d21c-a726-4ebd-9644-c32d14eb0b08@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? From: Warren Injection-Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 20:20:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 3738 X-Received-Body-CRC: 661763177 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:52287 Date: 2018-05-11T13:19:59-07:00 List-Id: On Sunday, 29 April 2018 06:51:00 UTC-4, pat...@spellingbeewinnars.org wro= te: > This is exactly what the OP was concerned about, how to get Ada out of on= e demographic into another.=20 >=20 > Again are all the other languages for inferior programmers? >=20 > Using a subset does not mean the language is dumbed down.=20 Yes, subsets are a great way to start out. I remember looking at SL/I (Stud= ent Language One) on the IBM-1130 way back when, which was a PL/I subset. T= he PL/I language would have been too large to start out with. At that time,= all of those features would have been too much for that 8K core machine an= yway, heh heh. I think this discussion needs to divide into two main categories: - embedded programming (which I see no Ada problem for) - POSIX day-to-day programming The biggest impediment to Ada in the POSIX world IMO is the fact that it is= basically a "C World". Yes, you can call C/C++ functions from Ada and even= design struct mappings etc. But the biggest PITA for Ada programming in a C environment is the durn C m= acros! You end up having write programs to digest the macros you need and = put them into Ada terms. Then if you move to another POSIX platform, you ma= y need to tweak this again (errno.h for example). > "2. Find an effective way to distinguish S/W engs from coders and prohibi= t coders from developing S/W. " >=20 > This is mind-bogglingly arrogant.=20 I have to agree. The distinction may have its place when hiring for a posit= ion but even then, degrees and Phd don't guarantee. Another part of the problem is the chicken and egg problem: I'd love to do my work in Ada where I work, but it would be unfair of me to= introduce it here. They can barely hire C++ programmers where I live, let = alone find someone that is proficient in Ada. If I left behind a legacy of= Ada code here, they'd never let me retire! Warren