From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a6b:128a:: with SMTP id 10-v6mr1522400ios.70.1524074365575; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5c8d:: with SMTP id a13-v6mr194977oti.6.1524074365376; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!k65-v6no3778065ita.0!news-out.google.com!u64-v6ni7042itb.0!nntp.google.com!f63-v6no402774itc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.233.194; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.233.194 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <878t9nemrl.fsf@nightsong.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <658c6c90-a41e-4445-a76e-ebda2c50f50b@googlegroups.com> Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEhvdyB0byBnZXQgQWRhIHRvIOKAnGNyb3NzIHRoZSBjaGFzbeKAnT8=?= From: "Dan'l Miller" Injection-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 17:59:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 4636 X-Received-Body-CRC: 2103324720 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:51610 Date: 2018-04-18T10:59:25-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 12:02:18 PM UTC-5, Lucretia wrote: > ... > There are a lot of people who would love to see a new Ada version break a= way from the previous > versions, possibly even a rewrite removing all the crap that's not really= required and basically, an Ada for > the 21st century. This would be extraordinarily difficult to do =E2=80=A2within=E2=80=A2 the = Ada community/standardization, because doing so would of course be a critiq= ue of Ichbiah's decisions and thus a disloyalty to Ichbiah himself. This w= ould be far easier to do in a new (reference-implementation) compiler that,= while optionally providing an Ada backwards-compatibility mode, feels free= to go explore a new era, unfettered by, say, Ada83. In particular, the co= mpiler could be modular in the sense of unplugging the Ichbiah semantics of= compiler-enforced rule-set and plugging in, say, Rust's borrow-checker/et.= al. on a per-project basis. There is Ada-the-syntax that (with the exception of discriminants) is aweso= me. Then there is Ada-the-Ichbiah-compiler-enforced-ruleset-from-Ada83 and= then there is Ada-the-1995-compiler-enforced-ruleset and then there is the= Ada-the-2005/2012-compiler-enforced-ruleset. We have 3 or so eras of defi= nition of safety. Rust shows a 4th. Randy is proposing some sort of 5th d= efinition of safety for provably-correct tasking in Ada2020. With so many = schools of thought vying for the safety crown, this area is ripe for plugga= ble modularity for different schools of thought. Even better if the axiom = systems were made not-mutually-exclusive: I'll take no-Ichbiah, some of Tu= cker's, all of Randy's, and the borrow checker from Rust=E2=80=94or some ot= her combination for a different project. Hence, why the compiler-enforceme= nt of rule-set (and the ARM that defines it) should be some form of source = code that declares an axiomatic system of logic, vaguely similar to Zed Not= ation. Now =E2=80=A2that=E2=80=A2 would be an Ada for the 21st century. > ... > Yet people still bitch about how "hard" it is to get an Ada program to co= mpile. Make it harder. Let the programmers-love-to-typewrite-me languages continu= e conquering the ease-of-compiling marketspace. Swift, C#, and Java value = this over almost all other goals, especially Swift's seemingly never ending= renaming to even more-beautiful identifiers and typing-convenience feature= s. Ada needs to fully conquer the source-code-is-a-rigorous-mathematical-p= roof marketspace; Rust and perhaps Ocaml+Coq are gaining on Ada in that rac= e. > ... > This is where Ada really shines, but it could go further with endian desc= ribing. There is no other > language which does this, at all Well, there was PL/I from which Ada got the idea of meticulous control of t= he layout of records. Ichbiah's Green was competing in a 1970s ecosystem t= hat had a background commentary of =E2=80=9Cwhy not just pick PL/I=E2=80=9D= . Multics had picked PL/I. Prime Computer had picked PL/I, refashioned as= PL/P. Intel and Digital Research had picked PL/I, refashioned as PL/M. https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSY2V3_4.2.0/com.ibm.entpli.= doc_4.2/lr/lsh-bigendian.htm