From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a6b:460a:: with SMTP id t10-v6mr1620588ioa.66.1524076932207; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3286:: with SMTP id u6-v6mr200630otb.13.1524076931984; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!maths.tcd.ie!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!168.235.88.217.MISMATCH!feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!k65-v6no3800119ita.0!news-out.google.com!u64-v6ni6999itb.0!nntp.google.com!k65-v6no3800116ita.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:42:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19c7a205-0a82-477b-9254-01af786f467e@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.233.194; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.233.194 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <06a8980d-21bb-4067-b22d-7d1f89342948@googlegroups.com> <19c7a205-0a82-477b-9254-01af786f467e@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7c9a9b82-e9d4-4002-89e2-3df1ba497e78@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? From: "Dan'l Miller" Injection-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 18:42:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 3676 X-Received-Body-CRC: 475239803 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:51612 Date: 2018-04-18T11:42:11-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 12:08:42 PM UTC-5, Lucretia wrote: > On Wednesday, 18 April 2018 15:31:26 UTC+1, Dan'l Miller wrote: > > I think that the real problem with AdaCore is the lack of sub-$1000 non= -GPL annual license for > > mass-market operating systems on mass-market ISAs, such as Windows, Mac= OS, Android, and iOS.=20 > > Looking at some other compiler vendors of non-Ada languages, each of th= em have a sub-$1000 > > non-GPL license available: RemObjects $800/year (all target mass-marke= t OSes/ISAs included), > > Microsoft $500/year (all mass-market target OSes/ISAs included), Intel = $700/year/OS. >=20 > This is truly not an argument either. Say someone's deciding whether to u= se C or Ada and there's this > sub-=C2=A3/$/=E2=82=AC 1000 compiler for Ada. They will just go with C, b= ecause there's a fucking C compiler > everywhere for nothing. Seriously, look at how many C compilers there act= ually are. There's loads of em, all free. The question is not Ada versus C (at any price). The question is Ada versu= s crapola. Rust is the very first language to come along since, say, PL/I = and Ada during the 1970s that seems to have some degree of understanding wh= at being not-crapola means. The question is how much is the average develo= per (per seat when in a team) willing to pay annually for a not-crapola com= piler toolchain on mass-market operating systems for mass-market ISAs that = permits the compiler vendor to hire a critical mass of developers to keep i= t going as a viable for-profit business. By its very nature, crapola needs= to be free, because it has no added value beyond perhaps being a ubiquitou= s commodity. I think that developers of for-profit software are willing to= pay very-low thousands* of dollars to have not-crapola tools that perform = correctness checks/proofs. * but not tens of thousands, most especially not annually The several Ada compiler vendors who do not even yet have full Ada2005 or A= da2012 feature-set are fairly direct evidence that they don't have sufficie= nt funding to hire a critical mass of developers to keep the chain-reaction= going. 10 years is an extraordinarily long time to wait for the compiler = to catch up with the language standard.