From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,4368e7c7118de06c X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.zanker.org!news.cs.univ-paris8.fr!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news10-e.free.fr!not-for-mail Sender: sam@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net From: Samuel Tardieu Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: ICFP2004 results are in References: <4150C42D.9070009@acm.org> <4151957C.3030800@acm.org> <87acvifbyk.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net> Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:25:08 +0200 Message-ID: <876566f6nf.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net> Organization: Avian Carrier & Friends User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Leafnode-NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:660:330f:f810:200:39ff:fe25:3aa2 NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:25:10 MEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.56.47.149 X-Trace: 1095881110 news10-e.free.fr 2389 81.56.47.149:61532 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:3955 Date: 2004-09-22T21:25:10+02:00 List-Id: >>>>> "Ed" == Ed Falis writes: Ed> A refactoring editor is nice to have, but definitely not a must to Ed> use agile methods. Remember, they didn't exist when XP was being Ed> developed. Wrong. The Smalltalk refactoring browser was created in mid 1994, while extreme programming has been developped circa 1999 if I am not mistaken (at the beginning of 2000, few books existed on the subject, but the famous "White Book"). Moreover, Ward Cunningham and Kent Beck, the fathers of XP, were Smalltalk programmers and used refactoring a lot. So I'd really say a refactoring editor is really a must. Sure, you can do without it, but the productivity will be highly decreased. I hope we'll see a refactoring editor in Ada one day, perhaps in GPS, but this is not an easy thing to do. Sam -- Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam