From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a37:502:: with SMTP id 2mr850921qkf.93.1561595868341; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:5ac6:: with SMTP id o189mr639193oib.37.1561595867999; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!m24no4183646qtm.0!news-out.google.com!4ni176qtw.1!nntp.google.com!m24no4183636qtm.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:37:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.234.171; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.234.171 References: <228117e3-4382-4faf-807e-e562c41657c4@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8b10bd11-cc45-4842-8746-6b061bf1619d@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Janus/Ada 3.2.1 Released! From: Optikos Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:37:48 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:56781 Date: 2019-06-26T17:37:47-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 5:36:29 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote: > "Optikos" wrote in message=20 > news:228117e3-4382-4faf-807e-e562c41657c4@googlegroups.com... > ... > >Randy, would putting Janus/Ada's front end on > >0) LLVM backend > >be more difficult than any major target feature listed above alone (e.g.= : > >1) Janus/Ada as-is without LLVM plus ELF on x86; >=20 > These are almost completely orthogonal: the existing code generator would= =20 > work for Linux, and the (old) Unix JLink did ELF. The issue with Linux i= s=20 > updating the runtime to use Linux system calls (these are different than = the=20 > ones from the old Unix). I can sympathize to some degree. But on the other hand, Janus/Ada's old UN= IX runtime would likely have been from the Spec 1170 era. Putting an end t= o the Unix wars, Spec 1170 evolved into the Single Unix Specification (SUS)= . The Linux Standard Base (LSB) pays immense homage to SUSv3:POSIX2001 (bu= t not SUSv4:2008through2018 yet) without being perfectly compliant with SUS= v3 in a minority of areas. > OTOH, attaching LLVM is a totally different level of work, and I don't kn= ow=20 > enough about LLVM to say how easy or hard it would be. OTOH, we did=20 > something similar of Unisys, so we already have most of the ability=20 > available. Prior precedent is great news! The 4th cycle of learning (i.e., for LLVM's= ways) is usually easier than the 1st (i.e., from scratch: Z80 for CP/M) and 2nd (i.e., relatively easy port of 8085 concepts on the Z80 to 8086 concept= s) and 3rd (i.e., major stressor on the design to withstand an entirely different = backend than the 2 prior RR-Software backends). > But again, note that a code generator is a small (and usually easiest) pa= rt=20 > of porting to a new target. Making a usable runtime (that is, exception= =20 > handling, finalization, overflow checking, divide-by-zero traps, basic I/= O,=20 > and most of all, tasking) is generally a bigger job. If Janus/Ada's runtime is utilizing really oddball Unix system calls that f= ell outside of Spec 1170, then I can see those topics being a major rethink= effort, finding analogous modern Linux functionality and morphing the desi= gn & source code to the rethink. But more likely than not, the system call= s made by Janus/Ada's old Unix runtime were standardized in Spec 1170 throu= gh SUSv3/POSIX:2001 and are largely present in LSB3.0 (2005) unless one of = the relative few backwards compatibilities broken in LSB5.0 (2015). On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 5:40 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote: > "Jeffrey R. Carter" wrote: > > I see that the website still refers to the compiler as=20 > > Janus/Ada 95. How much additional work is needed before you have a full= =20 > > Ada-12 compiler?=20 >=20 > Probably more years than I have left on the planet. ;-) While I've mapped > out a design for most new features, a few things have been pretty much > ignored (esp. interfaces and real-time stuff).=20 >=20 > If I was able to find a business plan that made sense, it could get done= =20 > faster, but as it stands I don't expect to ever break even with it and as= =20 > such one can't really spend $$$ (as opposed to time) on it.=20 Several of us here on c.l.a keep trying to help brainstorm business-model p= aths to expanded markets for Janus/Ada for RR Software's benefit. ;^)