From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a02:a386:: with SMTP id y6-v6mr12779776jak.25.1530651249106; Tue, 03 Jul 2018 13:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:1a18:: with SMTP id a24-v6mr64752oia.5.1530651248853; Tue, 03 Jul 2018 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.166.216.MISMATCH!d7-v6no997525itj.0!news-out.google.com!z3-v6ni1146iti.0!nntp.google.com!d7-v6no997523itj.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <18554067-1382-4b43-a832-2d27aa5117d7@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=213.108.152.51; posting-account=bMuEOQoAAACUUr_ghL3RBIi5neBZ5w_S NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.108.152.51 References: <856189aa-fa00-4960-929e-174f352310ad@googlegroups.com> <2718c8d4-5f35-4fd8-a1aa-1e60069a7a5d@googlegroups.com> <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> <3701bf07-89a5-4cb0-a704-5aebb589ca79@googlegroups.com> <2f5e4ce0-94e8-4b94-9da7-045ec90a9b22@googlegroups.com> <18554067-1382-4b43-a832-2d27aa5117d7@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8dc19505-b68a-403c-a164-f1de1864f3f1@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Teaching C/C++ from Ada perspective? From: Maciej Sobczak Injection-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 20:54:09 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53550 Date: 2018-07-03T13:54:08-07:00 List-Id: > > There is nothing that C++ lacks in this area when compared to Ada. >=20 > Oh really! Read Lakos's book then. I did. Thank you for recommendation. > All 852 pages of it effectively say: [...] No, they don't (and since I'm already used to your trolling style, I'm not = surprised). The abstract is available here: https://www.amazon.com/Large-Scale-Software-Design-John-Lakos/dp/0201633620 and relates to addressing physical challenges of large codebases. Considering the fact that the compilation model of Ada and C++ is basically= the same (some of this might be related to the fact that they use, well, e= xactly the same compiler), the challenges that are addressed by this book e= xists in both languages and, interestingly, the presented techniques (or mo= st of them) are transferable. > When a language has a problem that needs 852 pages to explain and straigh= ten out, methinks it actually might have an actual problem (or whole tangle= d nest of problems) in that vicinity. Yes. Another way to look at it is this: C++ is one of the few languages tha= t actually allowed engineers to implement systems in the large scale. > By comparison, in Ada's entire history spanning 5 decades, no one needed = to write an analogous 852-page tome on that topic. You have problems with fundamental logic. The fact that such a book does no= t exist for Ada does not mean that it was never needed. It only means that = nobody wrote it (as another exercise in logic, try to explain why there are= essentially no books for algorithms for Ada). It might even mean that engi= neers prefer C++ for large-scale systems and that's why they needed a C++-o= riented book to address their challenges. No, please don't pick this as an = invitation to trolling, I'm only demonstrating a beauty of logic. Interestingly, the theoretical book "Large-Scale Ada Software Design" might= not be needed at all thanks to the fact that Ada problems at the large sca= le can be addressed with the techniques presented in the C++ book. After al= l, they use the same compiler. --=20 Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com