From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,bc1361a952ec75ca X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-02 02:17:02 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer1.tiac.net!posterchild2.tiac.net!not-for-mail From: "David Starner" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: How to make Ada a dominant language Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:11:24 +0100 Organization: WWW.US.INTER.NET Message-ID: <9kb56v$pjr$1@news-central.tiac.net> References: <3B6555ED.9B0B0420@sneakemail.com> <9k3l9r$10i2$1@pa.aaanet.ru> <3B656345.64AB603A@sneakemail.com> <9k3oa1$2qg8$1@pa.aaanet.ru> <3B657715.7EC592D9@sneakemail.com> <3B659726.33E301CA@san.rr.com> <9kae23$38a$1@news-central.tiac.net> <$YrUPHc6C3IT@eisner.encompasserve.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip57.alva1.ok.pub-ip.ionet.net X-Trace: news-central.tiac.net 996743200 26235 38.193.124.57 (2 Aug 2001 09:06:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@us.inter.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:06:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11056 Date: 2001-08-02T09:11:24+01:00 List-Id: > In article <9kae23$38a$1@news-central.tiac.net>, "David Starner" writes: > > Darren New wrote in message > > news:3B659726.33E301CA@san.rr.com... > >>> �Don't use C; In my opinion, C is a library programming language > >>> not an app programming language.� - Owen Taylor (GTK+ developer) > >> [...] > > > > But it has the huge advantage of having the stablest, standardist binary API > > I am not at all convinced that most standard goes with most stable. > You should add some proof. As a standard, there's the System V ABI, that was designed primarily for C, and the IA64 ABI designed for C and C++. C has standardized symbol name mangling, something few other languages can claim. > > on most systems, and being useable from almost every programming language in > > active use. Often, the only safe way to connect to systems in the same > > language compiled by different compilers is through a C interface. > > And "often" operating systems come from Microsoft. Ada also has > standardized interfaces to Fortran and Cobol. Ada does have standardized interfaces to Fortran and Cobol, both of which are more or less irrelevant in the scope of Owen Taylor's work. (There's no usable open-source Fortran 90/95 or Cobol compiler, and the number of open-source programs in Fortran 77 is small.) How about Objective C? How about O'Caml? How about Perl and Python? How about Eiffel? How about compiled (non-JVM) Java? How about Pascal? (Okay, that's little better than Fortran.) GTK has bindings in 14 languages, including all the above but Java. > But on VMS there is a common calling standard for all languages. (What does all languages mean? Surely you don't mean every language created?) Unfortunately, that's rare among operating systems. Pretty much every OS I'm familiar of defines calling standards for one or two languages, and lets the others fend for themselves. > I don't mean to slight any other operating systems that are > language-neutral, but the idea that interfaces between languages > might use null-terminated strings is like passing the cup around > to make sure _everybody_ gets typhoid. > > Pointer arithmetic is the wave of the past. How do you go from null-terminated strings to pointer arithmetic? Pointer arithmetic is orthogonal to the C calling convention. If your arrays don't carry bounds information with them, then null-terminated strings seem a reasonable way to go. I won't argue that the interface is wonderful, but I could interface almost any two Ada functions through it, so it's fairly complete and working. -- David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org "The pig -- belongs -- to _all_ mankind!" - Invader Zim