From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,103b407e8b68350b X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-01-02 16:41:14 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed3.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news-xfer.cox.net!p01!news2.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: David Emery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Anybody in US using ADA ? References: <20619edc.0301021029.33f6cc69@posting.google.com> In-Reply-To: <20619edc.0301021029.33f6cc69@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:41:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.98.183.99 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news2.east.cox.net 1041554473 68.98.183.99 (Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:41:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:41:13 EST Organization: Cox Communications Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:32465 Date: 2003-01-03T00:41:13+00:00 List-Id: Mike Silva wrote: > "Marin David Condic" wrote in message news:... > >>Its a shame to see that many in the DoD arena are abandoning Ada because >>"Everybody else is using C++". > > > Seems like we should be seeing some results of the "DoD arena" rush to > C++ by now. As the data comes in, we should either see that indeed > C++ introduced problems and added costs that Ada would have avoided > (my expectation), or that it didn't (in which case, time to re-examine > assumptions). So, where are the C++ disaster coverups, and/or the > shining successes? In 1990 MITRE did an internal study based on then available data saying that the cost to maintain Ada was -LINEAR- on SLOC, not exponental as Barry Boehm says. If you think about this, it's a radical conclusion. And it wasn't done by the Ada people at MITRE, but by our cost center's statisticians and cost analysts Back when Emmett Paige was ASD-C3I, he held a series of Ada Dual-Use summits. At each, my position was: DoD has the data available to show if Ada has the value we claim. Let's collect the data and let the facts speak for themselves. Two results from this experience: 1. DoD didn't want to gather and then hear facts 2. Language decisions are generally not made on the basis of -any facts- but rather management perception of "acceptability", "training costs", etc. dave (been there, done that, forgot my T-shirt)