From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:ed07:: with SMTP id r7-v6mr12083524ith.27.1526295411583; Mon, 14 May 2018 03:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5c8d:: with SMTP id a13-v6mr890047oti.0.1526295411230; Mon, 14 May 2018 03:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!v8-v6no2767777itc.0!news-out.google.com!f20-v6ni3221itd.0!nntp.google.com!v8-v6no2767774itc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 03:56:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5dd41726-9f61-4eef-b872-f87bcf6c84ae@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=194.39.218.10; posting-account=3cDqWgoAAAAZXc8D3pDqwa77IryJ2nnY NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.39.218.10 References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com> <87zi1gz3kl.fsf@nightsong.com> <878t8x7k1j.fsf@nightsong.com> <87k1sg2qux.fsf@nightsong.com> <87h8njmk4r.fsf@nightsong.com> <87po27fbv9.fsf@nightsong.com> <87h8nhwhef.fsf@nightsong.com> <87d0y4zf7d.fsf@nightsong.com> <87tvrfyvha.fsf@nightsong.com> <5dd41726-9f61-4eef-b872-f87bcf6c84ae@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? From: Marius Amado-Alves Injection-Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 10:56:51 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:52342 Date: 2018-05-14T03:56:50-07:00 List-Id: On Friday, 11 May 2018 13:46:34 UTC+1, Lucretia wrote: > On Thursday, 10 May 2018 23:52:18 UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote: > > "Randy Brukardt" writes: > > > No wonder you don't understand: Ada 95 had none of the container stuf= f or=20 > > > other features that reduces the memory management burden without usin= g GC.=20 > > > At a minimum, you need to consider Ada 2005, but the most recent Ada = is=20 > > > best. > >=20 > > Ah, ok, I was also going by > >=20 > > http://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada/index.html >=20 > I wouldn't, that uses some weird syntax, it's like he's a C programmer do= ing Ada. >=20 > > which claims Ada has no standardized way to release allocated memory (s= o > > each implementation had its own way). If you can suggest a good place > > to read about the current standard method I'd appreciate it. >=20 > Bullshit. >=20 > http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/rm12_w_tc1/html/RM-13-11-2.html > =20 > > To be fair, the Pascal-like subset I looked into first was SPARK (I rea= d > > John Barnes' book about it) since SPARK was the aspect of Ada that at > > first interested me the most. I'd be interested to know how the Ada > > 2012 containers differ from C++ STL containers. As mentioned elsewhere > > I believe that the same guy (Alex Stepanov) had a hand in the design of > > both. >=20 > Your previous post about him says he worked on *a* container library for = Ada83 (it was in 1989) and he even says he never touched Ada much since the= n. So, no, he didn't have a hand in the current implementation. >=20 > I think it was Matthew Heaney who provided them, https://groups.google.co= m/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.ada/luv71Ex0CDc to the ARG for standardising, IIR= C. >=20 > Luke. Unfortunately, Ada.Containers is greatly modelled on the STL, yes. But it's= nevertheless of excellent quality. Matthew Heaney provided the bulk of a p= rototype implementation that most probably has been integrated into the cur= rent GNATs. My understanding of what happen in the 1980's: Alex Stepanov was looking fo= r, and into, generic programming, and the only language providing that was = Ada 83, and he looked briefly into her, but then for some reason he teamed = up with Stoutstroup for generics in C++, which they did the C way, with pre= processing, hence "template". So the strange history of Ada.Containers is A= da 83 -> STL -> Ada 2005. The goal in the 1980's was to make the data structure algorithms (linked li= sts, etc.) generic on the element type. Ada 83 was excellent for that, but = the opportunity was waisted for some reason. Also, they let the algorithmic= aspect show up more than it should, in the STL and then in Ada.Containers.= Instead of the algebraic structure. All that fussing with null values, etc= . This was the unfortunate part of Ada.Containers being modelled on the STL= .