From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1423:: with SMTP id k3mr893720qkj.369.1586466501878; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:62d5:: with SMTP id w204mr1017090oib.119.1586466501559; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder5.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!tr2.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8dc233b4-37f5-4fd8-8fc9-39b03d529b74@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.185.215.60; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.185.215.60 References: <9c0965fe-80de-453e-abc8-bf8d432df589@googlegroups.com> <8dc233b4-37f5-4fd8-8fc9-39b03d529b74@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Julia for Next-Generation Airborne Collision Avoidance System From: Optikos Injection-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:08:21 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:58340 Date: 2020-04-09T14:08:21-07:00 List-Id: On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:23:56 AM UTC-5, AdaMagica wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 9. April 2020 07:44:55 UTC+2 schrieb J-P. Rosen: > > I'd even say that the trend is for ease of writing rather than ease of > > reading/maintaining. Well, software engineering >=20 > Would you really call this SE? No, it isn't software engineering of large systems. But mere talk of evang= elism or of brow-beating shaming like what we in the Ada community have bee= n doing for decades isn't winning the war and hasn't been winning very many= major battles in recent years. Instead, what could be done as an entirely different more-aggressive strate= gy to expose nonAda languages' problems more directly? I am thinking somet= hing along the lines of what white-hat security researchers do to expose se= curity vulnerabilities: Ada white-hats exposing the vulns of nonAda softwa= re, contrasting exposed Julia weak spots in isolation with strength in Ada = or Ada+SPARK replacements in isolation. > > is not the only domain > > where advertising for long term benefit against immediate gain is > > difficult and unpopular... >=20 > =E2=80=9CWhen Roman engineers built a bridge, they had to stand under it = while the first legion marched across. > If programmers today worked under similar ground rules, they might well f= ind themselves getting much > more interested in Ada!=E2=80=9D > Robert Dewar There is really flying in the physical airplane. And then there is simulat= ing midair collisions of airplanes at fully-stressed-system scale in perfec= t-storm misbehaviors of Julia-based air-traffic-control software. (Think w= hat perfect-storm combination of situations must have occurred to trigger t= he Toyota crashes several years ago; use that analysis-technique thinking a= gainst Julia.) Electrical engineering sets up labs with test jigs that stress the digital = hardware in attempts at perfect-storm combinations of situations that must = all be handled well without, say, excessive inductance, crosstalk, noise, h= eat, EMI, and so forth in the analog domain. Ada community needs to set up= a Julia test jig and an Ada test jig to compare them in controlled quite-h= arsh situations.