From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,c406e0c4a6eb74ed X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Sender: jsa@rigel.goldenthreadtech.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: ADA Popularity Discussion Request References: <49dc98cf.0408110556.18ae7df@posting.google.com> <6F2Yc.848$8d1.621@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <413e2fbd$0$30586$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <4140b906$0$29447$636a15ce@news.free.fr> From: jayessay Organization: Tangible Date: 12 Sep 2004 12:20:24 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: DXC=j04UhMNX[Z`h?M\?km?gfh0R]m=BkYWIg:6bU3OT9S9j\2Yl5Mm9A9a^aM2i8keRmm7]JVUZ::bn` X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:3621 Date: 2004-09-12T12:20:24-04:00 List-Id: Lionel Draghi writes: > Ed Falis wrote: > > I agree to a good extent with Kevin. I tend to use test-first, > > assertions (or DbC if available) and static typing to complement > > each other. And they do. > > Is it really your opinion, Kevin? > If yes, I am pleased to see that we fully agree ;-) > > And you Jon? Not exactly, because I don't use much static typing anymore. It just doesn't offer much because it is largely dependent on having all requirements set in concrete (which they almost never are). Have a look at this: http://martinfowler.com/articles/newMethodology.html I think you and many others in this group will get a lot of insight from this article. It is not a perfect description but it has some advantages for this context: 1. It is written by someone who has been there and done that in both the traditional development cycle and some agile methods 2. It is written by someone for whom most people in this group probably have at least some respect. Personally, I think the sort of "agile" method I've been mentioning here is in many ways analogous to developing a theory in mathematics than what happens in "engineering". There is a lot of creative "noodling" that goes into this buttressed by very high levels of rigor, with a very bottom up approach where each definition, proposition, lemma and theorem are incrementally determined and tightly integrated. There are of course many differences, but it at least indicates the very different mind set. > OK, I suppose it's because of my poor english that I thought you > where underestimating type usefulness :-) Not type usefulness, most everyone agrees types are useful, even necessary. It is _static_ typing that is of questionable usefulness in any domain that doesn't have clear, well defined requirements (which is to say the vast majority of cases). /Jon -- 'j' - a n t h o n y at romeo/charley/november com