From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,c406e0c4a6eb74ed X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!01cc3b7c!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Richard Riehle" From: "Richard Riehle" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <49dc98cf.0408110556.18ae7df@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: ADA Popularity Discussion Request X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:23:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.81.217.56 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net 1093274580 66.81.217.56 (Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:23:00 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:23:00 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2931 Date: 2004-08-23T15:23:00+00:00 List-Id: Fabio, First, yes, I am the author of Ada Distilled. Thank you for the acknowledgement. I am working on a updated version, but I am being delayed in its release by the press of other concerns. Perhaps I should not spend as much time engaged in dialogue of this sort on comp.lang.ada. :-) Second. People do look at issues in programming languages differently, given the same information. While I don't agree with their conclusions, I appreciate that they will apply different criteria to their evaluation than I would. For example, when Kevin states that limited types are a flaw in the language, I choose to accept that he is correct, only because I realize that some people find this to be a difficult concept. I do disagree with Kevin on this, and many other points since limited is a powerful and effective feature when used by a designer who understands it. Syntax, in programming languages, seems to be a personal thing. I know people who dislike the syntax of the C family of languages as well as the Pascal family. Some of these people are attracted to Lisp, Haskell, or Ruby, or even Smalltalk or Eiffel. I once sat in on a meeting where, after the presentation by a prominent speaker, the room erupted in a spirited argument about the virtue of := versus = for assignment. Sometimes I have seen people get so upset about the placement of the type identifier in relationship to the variable/object that I half expect to seem white foam drooling from the corners of their mouths. As to learning Ada being difficult. My own experience is quite different, and I have taught Ada to a lot of people during the last eighteen years. A present, I teach a class that is populated by students who have previously learned Java, some of whom also know some C++. My class is a multi-language class in which students are learning Ada, C++, Lisp, and a little bit about Eiffel, COBOL, Fortran, Smaltalk, and other languages. Their reaction to Ada is that it is no more difficult to learn than Java, and certainly easier to learn to do well than C++. Of course, there are C++ die-hards, and I don't attempt to discourage them since most of the other professors are also C++ enthusiasts. As they take classes from those other professors, they must be prepared to do exercises in the language preferred by those professors. Finally, Kevin makes his case from his own viewpoint, using his own criteria. Oddly enough, the issues he raises are not those that represent weaknesses vis a vis Ada. If he had examined both languages more carefully he would have found some really good points that show some advantages of C++ over Ada. However, that kind of analysis would also have shown some excellent advantages of Ada over C++. At this stage of programming language development, there is no perfect language, certainly no perfect language for every set of circumstances. I ama personally comfortable with, and often prefer, Ada for most of my own programming. However, I also like Smalltalk and functional languages for certain kinds of problem solving. I am not a fan of Java or C++ but I do like much of what Eiffel has to offer. Most important, I continue to look for improvements in language design, hoping that some reasonable approach will manifest itself during my remaining work life. At present, the current design of Ada is one of the best languages for general purpose programming, but someone will someday improve upon it, and later someone will improve upon that improvement. By then, I will no longer have a pulse, global warming will have become more important than any other issue confronting human civilization, and my great grandchildren will look at Ada Distilled and wonder what I could have possibly been thinking when I wrote it. Richard Riehle