From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!newsfeed.xs3.de!io.xs3.de!news.jacob-sparre.dk!franka.jacob-sparre.dk!pnx.dk!.POSTED.rrsoftware.com!not-for-mail From: "Randy Brukardt" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 17:56:04 -0500 Organization: JSA Research & Innovation Message-ID: References: <1c73f159-eae4-4ae7-a348-03964b007197@googlegroups.com><87k1su7nag.fsf@nightsong.com> <87po2la2qt.fsf@nightsong.com> <87in8buttb.fsf@jacob-sparre.dk><87wowqpowu.fsf@nightsong.com><16406268-83df-4564-8855-9bd0fe9caac0@googlegroups.com><87o9i2pkcr.fsf@nightsong.com> <87in88m43h.fsf@nightsong.com><87efiuope8.fsf@nightsong.com><322f9b26-01de-4753-bb50-6ef2f3d993d8@googlegroups.com><87a7th9pd1.fsf@nightsong.com><87h8no1nli.fsf@nightsong.com> <874ljo1hvy.fsf@nightsong.com> <87vac4z2lh.fsf@nightsong.com> <87lgcszjdn.fsf@nightsong.com> Injection-Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 22:56:05 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: franka.jacob-sparre.dk; posting-host="rrsoftware.com:24.196.82.226"; logging-data="12910"; mail-complaints-to="news@jacob-sparre.dk" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.7246 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:52180 Date: 2018-05-09T17:56:04-05:00 List-Id: "Paul Rubin" wrote in message news:87lgcszjdn.fsf@nightsong.com... > "Randy Brukardt" writes: >> A DAG or worse yet, an unstructured graph with circularities, is >> precisely >> the kind of thing I was thinking of when I was talking about "spaghetti >> data". > > I still don't understand this angst about circularities. Edges in a > graph are like streets in a city, that let you navigate from one place > to another. I don't think the city I live in is "spaghetti" just > because the street topology is such that it's possible to drive around > in circles. You must live in a rare city with almost all grid streets. (And one would not represent a grid using a graph!) Almost any modern suburb have streets that snake around all which ways without getting anywhere useful. (Yes, there's usually some sort of trunk, but even those are constrained by topography, such as the lakes here in Madison.) That's my definition of spaghetti!! (Aside: I got partially lost last night coming back from a friend's house because the normal street was closed for construction. I followed a street that started south but turned east (away from the freeway!) and had no cross streets that went through to the south or east. Definitely a form of spaghetti!!) > ... you end up designing a DSL to make such > templates. That's very easy in Lisp but not so easy in Ada. Says you, who seems to have no idea of what the capabilities of Ada really are or how to use it. These sorts of things aren't difficult and one has the huge advantage of actually ending up with code that you can understand again 5 years in the future. You seem to want to program in a particular style that comes from some other programming language, expect to get some sort of benefits from doing so in Ada, yet don't seem to understand why a different style makes more sense for Ada. We made the serious mistake of making allowances in the OOP design for such people, and that led to several of the worst features of Ada. And those had no impact on the uptake (or lack thereof) of Ada. I surely hope that we've (the Ada community) learned better by now. Randy.