From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Teaching C/C++ from Ada perspective? Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 17:18:34 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: References: <856189aa-fa00-4960-929e-174f352310ad@googlegroups.com> <2718c8d4-5f35-4fd8-a1aa-1e60069a7a5d@googlegroups.com> <39fce60c-9f56-42fb-b679-fa08810b00ee@googlegroups.com> <3701bf07-89a5-4cb0-a704-5aebb589ca79@googlegroups.com> <2f5e4ce0-94e8-4b94-9da7-045ec90a9b22@googlegroups.com> <18554067-1382-4b43-a832-2d27aa5117d7@googlegroups.com> <8dc19505-b68a-403c-a164-f1de1864f3f1@googlegroups.com> <559657f8-bbf4-4a70-9449-f85bc98d6c6b@googlegroups.com> <590d4672-4aef-42a5-823c-57ccd291115a@googlegroups.com> <8de6b5ba-25ab-4d46-b80c-1544f43a9b05@googlegroups.com> <56180ac1-2480-4df7-9b0c-2e007efa5343@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: MyFhHs417jM9AgzRpXn7yg.user.gioia.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.3 Content-Language: en-US Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53651 Date: 2018-07-05T17:18:34+02:00 List-Id: On 2018-07-05 15:14, Maciej Sobczak wrote: >> Yes. But the correct sentence is: this mess is economically viable >> because of other mess. Tools feed on design errors, it is an illness. > > In the ideal (?) world where you have only one company producing all the tools, perhaps the idea of "library" would be viable. But I want open interfaces and a dumb text file happens to be a pretty good one. I don't want any tools beyond the compiler, IDE and source/project management. Each new tool multiplies complexity and fragility. > Notice that even in the Ada world the ASIS, which might be a good foundation for semantic-oriented tools, seems to be falling out of fashion. This shows that such constructs cannot be treated as a basis for very long-term projects and large-scale systems are usually long-term as well. That's why I prefer dumb text files as a stable format that can outlive not only fashions, but also vendors themselves. Today, R1000 is a history, but dumb text files are still kicking. This is the kind of format stability that we need in large-scale, long-term projects. Problems remain independent on whether you keep everything as a bunch of assorted files. Having files makes things only more difficult. Did you ever tried to browse a samba share folder with 20K+ files in it? Clearly source/project management must be integrated with IDE. There is absolutely no doubt about it. Then a reasonably designed source control system is an ideal place to keep the Ada library in. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de