From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,c23311c4d57b937e X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!proxad.net!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!nntp.inet.fi!central1.inet.fi!inet.fi!read3.inet.fi.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Sender: AWI003@FIW9430 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Embedded Keynote Speaker Mentions Ada References: <414B6E62.9070402@acm.org> <0hL2d.762$QB1.501@trndny02> <414E2306.6030404@acm.org> <8%q3d.1820$kn2.1441@trndny07> <414EE3A0.9080106@acm.org> <1095728821.921629@yasure> <1095858248.693771@yasure> From: Anders Wirzenius Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:34:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.251.142.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@inet.fi X-Trace: read3.inet.fi 1095935690 194.251.142.2 (Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:34:50 EEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:34:50 EEST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:4003 Date: 2004-09-23T10:34:50+00:00 List-Id: Benjamin Ketcham writes: > In article Anders wrote: > > > > I am not a programming lecturer. I got an impression that there are some persons participating in c.l.a who are giving Ada lectures. I want to raise a question about the "useful outcome": > > > > Couldn't a useful outcome be the learning process that comes out of a study where you rewrite a piece of code in Ada, first as a so called line-by-line translation and then as a programming project where you do it from the requirements? > > The first mentioned step will certainly raise a bunch of questions about the differences between the [programming language] way and the Ada way. The questions are then answered while doing the second step. > > > > Exactly, I see this as a benefit, as well. > > But there's another benefit I'd expect in addition to the "polemic" > benefit. That is, I suspect there would be real interest in an Ada Linux > kernel (or other familiar, high-popularity software item: a version > of, or competitor to, Apache would have a very similar effect, IMO), > from many quarters where reliability is perceived to be especially > important. I'm not as much thinking of the NSA, etc., as businesses > and individuals who would be swayed by the "Reliability" selling point. > E.g., sites that run FreeBSD or some other "off-brand" Unix, because > they are more concerned with (and knowledgeable about) security issues, > than with going with what's popular or what has a lot of drivers. > (Indeed, maybe *BSD would be a better target for a rewrite in Ada than > Linux, given the security focus and the "against the grain, holier than > thou elitism" (no offense intended) of the BSD folks...) > > These benefits accrue specifically for a rewrite/translation of an > existing "popular" piece of software. A new and different "killer app" > that happened to use Ada would be keen, too, but (a) that's not what > I'm talking about, and (b) where is it, anyway? > If there are real benefits to Ada, they should apply even for a "dumb" > rewrite. If there are only benefits given a ground-up redesign, > without even matching the same "API" as an existing program, then > are these benefits really due to Ada, or just due to generic software > engineering, and the obvious fact that almost anything can be improved > by a redesign? Wouldn't such things as bounds checking, and the > nailing down of specific behaviour for a host of exceptional conditions > that the C standard just leaves undefined, bring benefits even to such > a "C-centric" program as a Unix kernel? > > > The Linux kernel is of course a too big piece for such a project. > > Obviously I disagree here. Or at least I question, why not the > Linux kernel, or something similarly "ambitious". If one video > driver happens to be written in Ada, nobody except people here will > know or care. If a whole kernel, or webserver etc., is written in Ada, > it opens up potential exposure to and interest in the language, to > a much bigger world of programmers. And the opportunity to directly > compare performance and reliability between the Ada and C versions, > seems seductive to me. Are people afraid of that comparison? > > > Anders With "project" I meant a classroom project, a student assignment. Ok, why not the kernel as a student project. You need a bunch of students and an expert on the OS requirements. > > PS: Are you a relation of Lars W.? Apologies if this is an FAQ of > your life. > > --Benjamin Uncle. Anders