Re: Who Wants Ada?

Re: Who Wants Ada?

[Mark Galassi]

In article <494@bonnie.UUCP> spf@bonnie.UUCP (Steve Frysinger) writes:
>> .... This is what the Ada people
>> need to drive through their skulls: we don't want another COBOL or
>> Pascal! (No personal offence to "Ada people".)
>> 
>> 						Mark Galassi
>> 					...!tektronix!reed!rosalia
>> {These views are mine and should be everybody else's :-) }
Since then Steve has written me a couple of letters, showing that he
understands that C has more raw power and that the reasons for preferring
Ada are managerial (large projects with many poeple require
a language oriented towards tyranny rather than anarchy). This does
confirm that nobody will program in Ada for the joy of it, but rather
as a chore. My deep respect for Steve, but a couple of things need
correcting:
>
>Just for the record, on my DEC PRO 350 (a PDP-11/23 running RSX-11M)
>the code generated by the Pascal compiler has consistently been 50-100%
>FASTER than the code generated by Whitesmith's C compiler.

** Use the DECUS C compiler (public domain), it performs better than other
compilers on RSX and RT-11.

>The point is this: C is not necessarily more efficient than Pascal (or
>Ada, etc).  The quality of the compiler and run-time system is where
>it's at.  While I'm not in love with either Ada or C, the argument I
>read on the net sounds more like defense of the familiar (C) against
>the unknown (Ada), which is not a very open-minded frame of mind for
>people in a high-tech, fast-paced industry.
>Steve Frysinger

** what is more open-minded than programming because it is enjoyable
rather than a duty? I have also seen projects for which C presented
portability, and many people could modify the code and understand it.
Microsoft develops all its applications in C, as do many other high-
powered companies. Some programs for bank use have been written in C 
and were amazingly efficient (the programmers probably hated it :-) ).
My code always passes lint checks with the "-b" and other tight options.
>Why would I waste my time expressing anybody's opinions but my own?

** you wouldn't waste time if they all agreed with you. :-)

						Mark Galassi
					...!tektronix!reed!rosalia

Re: Who Wants Ada?

[Keith Shillington @seventh]

(Mark Galassi) and (Steve Frysinger) write:
>>> .... This is what the Ada people
>>> need to drive through their skulls: we don't want another COBOL or
>>> Pascal! (No personal offence to "Ada people".)
>>> 
>>> {These views are mine and should be everybody else's :-) }
>Since then Steve has written me a couple of letters, showing that he
>understands that C has more raw power and that the reasons for preferring
>Ada are managerial (large projects with many poeple require
>a language oriented towards tyranny rather than anarchy). This does
>confirm that nobody will program in Ada for the joy of it, but rather
>as a chore. 
> 		... etc.

Growl.  I have been programming in Ada for 4 years now.  Pascal for 6
before that.  C on and off for the entire time.

1:  Ada is NOT Pascal.  It may look similar to the novice, but the
    languages are significantly different.  Just like Pascal looks like C
    to the semi-novice, and we all know the languages are radically
    different.  (...and it certainly isn't COBOL, give me a break!)

2:  Programming in structured, highly typed languages is an incredible
    joy, I don't have to worry about making weird semantic errors; the
    compiler will point them out to me.  I can be highly expressive, and
    have a hope in Hades that someone else might understand my code
    without studying it for weeks.

3:  I agree that C has immense raw power; so do most assemblers.  In
    fact, for writing drivers and the like (given that I don't as of yet
    have a full-on-complete-with-all-the-hooks-and-switches-Ada-Compiler
    to play with) C is the language of choice.  I would counter to the
    claims of C's conciseness with APL.  I would counter to the claims
    of flexibility with LISP.  And I counter to programming joy with
    Ada.

I don't mean to offend, I mean to inform.

Keith Allan Shillington
Instructor in the structured languages: Pascal and Ada.