* (none)
@ 1985-12-02 20:44 Stachour.CSC_RP
1985-12-06 0:41 ` (none) info-ada
0 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: Stachour.CSC_RP @ 1985-12-02 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\fUSC-ISIF
EBERARD
\f
Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
consider ourselves professionals but have been unable to perform the
needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
to now perform professionally.
[Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
impossible to do a professional job.} ]
It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
continue in an area that is growing far faster than our poor ability to
eduate and train.
But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
regulation.
I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
know a good way of achieving same.
By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-03 4:24 info-ada
1985-12-06 0:41 ` (none) info-ada
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-03 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
To: info-ada@isif.arpa
Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
your pointers appropriately.
-- Karl --
DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-03 11:13 ,
1985-12-06 0:42 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , @ 1985-12-03 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
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Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 03:05:04-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA07182; Tue, 3 Dec 85 02:44:28 PST
Date: 2 Dec 85 19:26:05 GMT
From: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (D Gary Grady)
Organization: Duke U Comp Ctr
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
Message-Id: <831@ecsvax.UUCP>
References: <851202020417.324184@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
An article by James Fallows in the December _Atlantic_ might be of
interest to those debating the merits of a system for licensing
programmers. Fallows notes that creating a closed "guild" system often
leads to an enforced mediocrity that puts emphasis on input (years of
education, passing an entrance exam, perhaps some "continuing
education" requirement) rather than output (being able to do the job).
There is some justification for licensing those serving the general
public when the public would otherwise have trouble evaluating
qualifications and when a mistake could be disastrous, as in law and
medicine. I am prepared to argue that the current licensing schemes in
those professions are better than nothing, but not much. In the case of
programmers, however, those hiring are in a better position to judge
individual qualifications than the public. Professional licenses for
programmers? I say it's spinach, and to hell with it.
--
D Gary Grady
Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706
(919) 684-3695
USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-03 22:07 ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , @ 1985-12-03 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 13:58:10 PST
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 13:46:26-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA16213; Tue, 3 Dec 85 11:43:43 PST
Date: 3 Dec 85 18:23:07 GMT
From: ucdavis!lll-crg!peirce@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Michael Peirce)
Organization: Lawrence Livermore Labs, CRG, Livermore Ca
Subject: Ada Pretty Printers?
Message-Id: <1096@lll-crg.ARpA>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
If anyone knows anything about the availability of any Ada Pretty
Printing programs could they please send me some info?
-- michael peirce (peirce@lll-crg)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-04 7:50 ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , @ 1985-12-04 7:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 23:45:09 PST
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 23:42:20-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA27538; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:22:05 PST
Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
add a few cheap shots of my own:
> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
plumbers.
If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
"Professionalism for Programmers"?
> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
exploration of non-issues:-)
But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
> 1. A Professional License Exam
By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
> 2. Responsibility
> 3. Code of Ethics
> 4. Accountability
These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
> 6. Job Titles/Categories
What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
industry?
> 11. Internship
FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
> 12. Continuing Education
ditto
> 16. Professional Model
> 17. Peer Review
> 18. Censure and Appeal
> 19. Best Programming Practice
Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
judgment.
> 20. Transition Strategy
From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
> 21. Major Professional Society
...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
you can buy your own football, huh?
> 22. Regulatory Board
ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
--
Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-04 9:09 ` ,
1985-12-06 0:49 ` (none) info-ada
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , @ 1985-12-04 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 01:00:22 PST
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 00:57:45-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA27910; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:48:47 PST
Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
add a few cheap shots of my own:
> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
plumbers.
If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
"Professionalism for Programmers"?
> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
exploration of non-issues:-)
But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
> 1. A Professional License Exam
By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
> 2. Responsibility
> 3. Code of Ethics
> 4. Accountability
These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
> 6. Job Titles/Categories
What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
industry?
> 11. Internship
FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
> 12. Continuing Education
ditto
> 16. Professional Model
> 17. Peer Review
> 18. Censure and Appeal
> 19. Best Programming Practice
Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
judgment.
> 20. Transition Strategy
From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
> 21. Major Professional Society
...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
you can buy your own football, huh?
> 22. Regulatory Board
ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
--
Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-04 16:41 RCONN
1985-12-06 0:59 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: RCONN @ 1985-12-04 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 08:24:18 PST
Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:23:24-MST
From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
Subject: PDL Survey Results
To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Message-ID: <12164447055.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
Thanks to all who responded to my PDL survey. As we suspected
from the beginning, the results were inconclusive, but some information
which may be of interest came to light. The complete survey and all
responses is in PD:<ADA.GENERAL>PDLSURVEY.DOC.
Following is the forward to this file.
Complete copies of the survey file will be emailed to the respondants.
Rick
---- PDLSURVEY.DOC Foreword ----
DDN-Based Ada PDL Survey
4 December 1985
Richard Conn
A survey was conducted on the Defense Data Network in September to
November 1985 to determine what PDLs were currently in use by members of the
INFO-ADA and ADA-SW mailing list communities. It was expected that this survey
would not be conclusive in any way since (1) the survey audience was limited
and (2) of those who would receive the survey, only a few would respond. It
was hoped that the survey would, at the most, indicate if a definite trend
toward one particular PDL exists.
I have concluded from the few (less than 10) responses received that
a trend toward one particular Ada PDL is NOT evident. There is some
indication that there is a desire to Ada PDLs internally, which will
result in a lack of standardization.
Overview of responses:
Identification of Ada PDL Number of Users
------------------------- ---------------
ANNA by David Luckham 1
Byron by Intermetrics 3
Caine-Farber-Gordon PDL/81 1
Internally-developed 4
PDL/Ada by IBM 1
Following are the responses received from the survey. They are
presented here because of their information content and the potential value
of this information to the community.
REFERENCE
Larry Lindley, Naval Avionics Center, "Survey of Ada-Based PDLs,
Final Report, January 1985," write to:
Commanding Officer
Naval Avionics Center
21st Street and Arlington Avenue
Indianapolis, IN 46218
Contract Number N00163-84C-0300, Done by Computer Technology Associates, Inc,
7927 Jones Branch Drive, Suite 600W, McLean, VA 22102 and Advanced Software
Methods, Inc, 17021 Sioux Lane, Gaithersburg, MD 20878
DISCLAIMER
No endorsement of any particular Ada PDL or company is expressed,
or intended to be implied, by me in this forward. All content of this
forward is my own opinion and not necessarily that of anyone or any company
associated with me.
Rick Conn
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a023560; 27 Sep 85 3:55 EDT
Date: 27 Sep 1985 00:48-PDT
Sender: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
Subject: [trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart): Re: Informa...]
From: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
Cc: HalHart@USC-ECLB.ARPA
Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]27-Sep-85 00:48:33.HALHART>
Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 08:07 CDT
Received: from UCB-VAX.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 25 Sep 85 11:58:55-PDT
by UCB-VAX.ARPA (5.26/5.9)
id AA01992; Wed, 25 Sep 85 12:12:17 PDT
Date: 25 Sep 1985 0939-PDT (Wednesday)
From: trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart)
To: Richard_Conn <ucbvax!CSNET-RELAY.ARPA!conn%ti-eg.CSNET@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
Cc: HalHart@eclb, trwrb!trwspp!Kerner@Berkeley.EDU, Kerner@eclb,
trwrb!trwspp!Belz@Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 85 16:15 CDT.
<8509250048.AA16615@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
Return-Path: <trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <8509251639.AA03911@spp1.UUCP>
Rick,
TRW is using TRW's own Ada-based PDL (which we simply call
"Ada PDL") on 2 major projects (OSIS for the Navy, AMPE for
the AF(?)) & several medium or small projects. Plus, it will (would?)
be used on any of many other projects, of varying sizes, which
we have bid.
I am not sure, but I think at least one TRW project (at a non-
California site) has used Intermetrics' Byron; at least, they
intended to try it out.
I appreciate your trying to so "measure" popularity or
acceptability of various Ada-based PDLs, but as you suggest,
this will be hard. First, many of the Ada-based PDLs are
proprietary (esp. their suites of support tools), so they can
not possibly be used by more than 1 company. Also, number of
projects or, even better, aggregate dollar value or programs
sizes, might be a better measure which you would have little hope
of capturing. And, finally, it is certainly too early to start
drawing objective conclusions about the successes & failures of
these early usages (both due to future completion dates of large
projects & inevitable improvements to each PDL & its tools).
-- Hal Hart, TRW
PS: I assume you are aware of the semi-yearly update of Ada PDLs
status which Judy Kerner publishes in Ada LETTERS. It includes
dozens of listings, & I know that she just early this month
completed her own canvass of every entry. Although her new matrix
probably won't appear in your mailbox for months, I suggest that
you request an advance copy from her (2 electronic addresses above).
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Received: from nosc-tecr.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a002680;
27 Sep 85 11:45 EDT
Date: 27 Sep 1985 0832-PST
From: Contr22 <CONTR22@NOSC-TECR>
Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
Reply-To: CONTR22@NOSC-TECR
Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 13:41 CDT
At Magnavox, we are using the Byron language from Intermetrics for all
AFATDS software.
Linda Rising
Magnavox
Ft. Wayne, IN
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a010492; 29 Sep 85 21:40 EDT
Date: 29 Sep 1985 18:36-PDT
Sender: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
Subject: Informal PDL Survey
From: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]29-Sep-85 18:36:55.CDONALDSON>
Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Mon, 30 Sep 85 00:28 CDT
Hello!
I believe we met at the IEEE Ada as a PDL working group meeting
in Clairmont, California earlier this year ... I was representing
Harris Corporation. I was interested in your PDL survey for two
reasons: 1) I am currently doing work for Larry Lindley, and
2) I can give you some information on PDL usage at Harris
Based on Christine Youngblut's findings in Larry's survey, I have
been desigining an experiment concerning the use of Ada PDLs for the
STARS Methodology Team. We are interested in the effect of PDL
characteristics on process and product quality. We have
decided to look at the effects of including some specific information
regarding requirements traceability, exception handling, and inter-unit
dependencies, the use of structured English in combination with Ada,
and the provision of special templates geared for the particular design
methodology to be used -- in this case Object-Oriented Design as
defined by Booch. The expeirment will consist of four teams of four
people each for six months, where they (each team) will design the
same problem using a different PDL, and implementing the problem in
Ada. Depending upon the results of the first phase, there will be
a second phase of the same length with two PDLs. If you are interested
I would be happy to send you a copy of the plan I prepared for Larry,
it is about 130 pages right now and so if you could send me your
mailing address I will forward it to you. I am always looking for
criticism/comments.
Although I am soon to be leaving the company to work for Software
Productivity Solutions, I can tell you a little about use of PDLs,
especially Ada PDLs, at Harris. Of course, the Harris Ada PDL has
been used the most on a variety of projects. Because it is a complex
PDL supporting a very sophisticated methodology, it has not always
been well received. In addition, we used the PDL/Ada from IBM
on a project. No other Ada PDLs have been used at Harris, although
Caine Farber Gordon PDL/81 has been used and there is talk about
looking at their Ada style.
I am very interested in the results of your survey since it
relates to work I am and will be doing for Larry, and would appreciate
your keeping me abreast of your findings. I am particularly interested
in any comments you receive on structured English, and of course the
explicit information I mentioned above (exceptions, requirements traceability,
inter-unit dependnecies).
The experiment is a competitively procured contract (RFP out
now) expected to start up in January.
Sincerely,
Cammie Donaldson
305-242-5677
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Received: from mitre-bedford.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a001561;
9 Oct 85 13:41 EDT
Date: Wednesday, 25 Sep 1985 09:13-EDT
From: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
Cc: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
In-reply-to: Your message of Tuesday, 24 Sep 1985 17:15-EDT.
Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Thu, 10 Oct 85 10:45 CDT
We have a small project going here at MITRE which is using David
Luckham's ANNA annotation extensions to the Ada language as a Program
Design Language. ANNA was described in the March issue of IEEE Software.
We have been looking at how using a more formal Ada PDL affects what is
presented at a PDR and a CDR, as well as how much better the final system
looks. Currently we are in the middle of designing the system, we just had
a PDR review.
Christopher Byrnes
The MITRE Corporation
Burlington Road
M. S. A180T
Bedford, Mass. 01730
cb@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA
...decvax!linus!bccvax!cb.UUCP
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Received: from mit-multics.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a016072;
15 Oct 85 18:03 EDT
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 85 17:50 EDT
From: Avery%mit-multics.arpa@CSNET-RELAY
Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
To: Richard_Conn <conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY>
In-Reply-To: Message of 24 Sep 85 17:15 EDT from Richard_Conn
Message-ID: <851015215050.533981@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Wed, 16 Oct 85 07:44 CDT
Rick,
GTE Government Systems has an internal Ada Design Language which is
used throughout the corporation. If you have any further questions or
need any further information, please contact Charlene Hayden.
Hayden -at MIT-MULTICS
**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
Texas Instruments is developing its own Ada PDL. TI intends to use
this PDL internally and is considering marketing it, but no decision has been
made yet. TI has also used the Byron Ada PDL of Intermetrics internally on
a government contract.
Rick Conn
Contact Alan Woody, Phone 214-952-2136, DDN Mail
WOODY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY, for questions
-------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-04 18:34 RCONN
1985-12-06 1:02 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: RCONN @ 1985-12-04 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 10:27:45 PST
Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:25:28-MST
From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
Subject: Sorry
To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
Message-ID: <12164447432.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
I accidentally sent the WHOLE PDL survey file rather
than just the foreword.
Rick
-------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 6:09 info-ada
1985-12-06 1:04 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-05 6:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 21:56:25 PST
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 21:54:48-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA24127; Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
From: ihnp4!mgnetp!wnuxb!laj@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <8512050554.AA24127@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA24281; 4 Dec 85 23:35:10 CST (Wed)
To: mgnetp!info-ada
Subject: Re: (none)
Newsgroups: net.lang.ada
In-Reply-To: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL
Cc:
What is this garbage !!!
And what is it doing on the net !!!
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!wnuxb!laj
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\fUSC-ISIF
>EBERARD
>\f
>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
>From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>
> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable :o perform the
>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
>to now perform professionally.
> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
>impossible to do a professional job.} ]
> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
>continue in an area that is growing far faster`than our poor ability to
>eduate and train.
> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
>regulation.
> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
>know a good way of achieving same.
> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 15:46 info-ada
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-05 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
Could you please fix your mailer? All the messages from your site
arrive with hundreds of lines of mailing list.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 17:45 info-ada
1985-12-08 21:08 ` (none) Jay R. Ashworth
0 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-05 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 09:35:04 pst
From: ihnp4!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!ditzel@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <8512041735.AA22187@ssc-bee>
To: ssc-vax!info-ada
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
In-Reply-To: your article <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
What a self-important piece of nonsense this "Ada Professionalism" document
is. Good luck with your ridiculous effort...thanks god i will NEVER be
involved with a project where this type of nonsense will be listened to.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 20:50 info-ada
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-05 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
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id AA02726; Thu, 5 Dec 85 07:38:15 pst
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 85 07:38:15 pst
From: decwrl!glacier!oliveb!tolerant!leach@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Geoff Leach)
Message-Id: <8512051538.AA02726@handel.TOLERANT>
To: tolerant!info-ada
Subject: Re: Recent (unreadable) postings to the Net
Newsgroups: net.lang.ada
In-Reply-To: <8512032207.AA19265@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Tolerant Systems Inc., San Jose
I curious as to what these strange things might be. Can you enlighten
me?
Perhaps you could also tell me how a site that does not have
direct access to ARPANET would be able to accedd the Ada database.
Thanks in advance.
Geoff Leach
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 20:54 ,
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , @ 1985-12-05 20:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 5 Dec 85 11:43:56 PST
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Thu 5 Dec 85 11:41:38-PST
Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
id AA06799; Thu, 5 Dec 85 10:20:23 PST
Date: 5 Dec 85 16:08:22 GMT
From: ucdavis!lll-crg!gymble!beth@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Beth Katz)
Organization: U of Maryland, Laboratory for Parallel Computation, C.P., MD
Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
Message-Id: <460@gymble.UUCP>
References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>, <275@opus.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
I'm not sure I want to jump into this fray, but I'm very much pro-Ada
and anti-"Ada Professionalism Document". First of all, as others
have mentioned, people using the Ada language should not have a
separate code of ethics. I have difficulties with the professionalism
movement alone. What you consider important for a software professional
may be contrary to what I feel is important. Focus on ethics and
certification if you must, but leave Ada and SIGAda alone.
Secondly, we just don't know how Ada *should* be used. We don't have
enough experience with it. We don't know which design methodologies
are appropriate for particular applications. We don't know how to
train people to use Ada as a software engineering language and really
use the appropriate concepts that are supported by Ada. Various
people in research, government, and industry are looking at these
questions. Until we really know what is happening with Ada use,
please don't try to "certify Ada software personnel."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arpa: beth@mimsy.umd.edu Elizabeth E. Katz
UUCP: ...!seismo!umcp-cs!beth Dept. of Computer Science
CSnet: beth@umcp-cs University of Maryland
Of course these opinions are my own. Valid data supporting conflicting
views readily received and discussed. I'd love to discuss how you
are using and measuring your use of Ada.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1985-12-05 21:42 , ,
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: , , @ 1985-12-05 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
*<info-ada>archive.current
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fwisc-crys
pb
\fbrl-bmd
genesis
\fwisc-rsch
jerome
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fjpl-vlsi
august
larry
jplanderson
\fibm-sj
alpern
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fsu-sierra
bryan
haberler
rosenblum
pack
mendal
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnosc
ccvax.jackie
elmer.jensen
hobler
ccvax.dukelow
jacoby
CCVAX.colborn
CCVAX.tokoro
CCVAX.hesser
CCVAX.johnd
sdcsvax!bill
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fari-hq1
charlie
\fddn1
dca-pgs
navtelcom
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fsri-kl
denny
mercado
sarvela
BillW
Mathis
\fmitre-bedford
gte
gah
munck
mcc
Info-Ada
bcr
pjl
johnm
\fnosc-tecr
contr22
CONTR23
contr04
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\fdec-marlboro
kania
rehill
\foffice-2
kirk.tym
\fsri-unix
richard
\flll-mfe
info-ada%lll
COLBORN%SAV
\fsu-sushi
samuel
PACK
\flogicon
ada
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\faids-unix
info-ada
\frand-relay
info-ada.arizona
\fbrl
info-ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\famsaa
jer
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fdecwrl
scherrer%gvaic3.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\foregon-grad
info-ada
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fdenver
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
porter
DSDC-SDT2
\fhi-multics
cornhill
gailly.ada
stachour
vaughanw
kamrad.cst
hkberg.cscswtec
eachus.nmlsppt
hi-info-ada
\flanl
post-info-ada
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
DRUFFEL
GOODENOUGH
\fanl-mcs
dritz
\fusc-isid
inco
\fnbs-vms
kuhn
zelkowitz
\fmit-oz
egk
pao
\fsimtel20
rmathias
RCONN
\fNRL-CSS
info-ada
\fNYU
INFO_ADA
\fXEROX
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fRUTGERS
MCGRATH
\fS1-A
JMB
\fSU-AI
REP
DCL
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fBerkeley
rhc%UCBJADE.CC
trwrb!trwspp!hal
trwrb!trwspp!colbert
trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
\fMaryland
ada-bbd
\fRADC-MULTICS
Karlovic
Gilyeat
\fcornell
infoada
\fUSC-ECL
LOCAL-INFO-ADA
\fUSC-ECLB
HFISCHER
\fUSC-ISIE
BERTAPELLE
NSCHNEIDEWIND
DKREBILL
SAC.8AFDPI
SAC.ADDA
\fUSC-ISIB
HOLG
\fsri-spam
trudy
\fUSC-ISIA
DEVCTR
\fBBNA
RSchaaf
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fUTAH-20
INFO-ADA
\fWASHINGTON
DMJ
Sloan
\fCISL
Info-ADA%pco
\fDCA-EMS
Cleaveland
\fwsmr01
hhamilto
\flll-tis-b
info-ada-news
\fECLB
BSCHAAR
eberard
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fharvard
info-ada-incoming
\fseismo
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fucbdali
yee
\feglin-vax
harbaughs
\fSRI-AI
GOHEEN
\fnscw-wo
jcavall
\fACC
BBOARD.ADA
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fAmes-VMSB
welch
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fmitre-gateway
anderson
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fpica-lca
kkramer
\fnswc-wo
cottrell
\fisia
mclaughlinjr
\ftopaz
princeton!siemens!emery
\fcmu-cs-pt
cmu-info-ada
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\f
Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 5 Dec 85 13:30:47 PST
Received: from MIT-MC.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Thu 5 Dec 85 13:29:49-PST
Received: from harvard.HARVARD.EDU by MIT-MC.ARPA 5 Dec 85 16:31:49 EST
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 85 16:31:23 EST
From: lisa@harvard.HARVARD.EDU (Lisa Rubin Neal)
To: info-ada@mit-mc.arpa, synrels@GVAX.CS.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: RELEASE OF THE SYNTHESIZER GENERATOR
I would like to obtain information about the Syntesizer Generator.
Mail information to:
Lisa Neal
Aiken Computation Lab
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
I would also like to find out the status of the Program Synthesizer
on the Macintosh. Tom Reps sent me a disk about 1/2 year ago,
and I'd like to know if an updated version is available. Thanks.
Lisa Neal
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-02 20:44 (none) Stachour.CSC_RP
@ 1985-12-06 0:41 ` info-ada
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\fUSC-ISIF
>EBERARD
>\f
>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
>From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>
> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable to perform the
>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
>to now perform professionally.
> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
>impossible to do a professional job.} ]
> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
>continue in an area that is growing far faster than our poor ability to
>eduate and train.
> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
>regulation.
> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
>know a good way of achieving same.
> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 4:24 (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 0:41 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:06 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512030424.AA00479@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
>Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
>Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
>Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
> id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
>Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
>To: info-ada@isif.arpa
>Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
>
>As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
>glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
>included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
>notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
>please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
>info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
>
>One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
>Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
>will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
>your pointers appropriately.
>
>-- Karl --
>
>DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
>UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 11:13 (none) ,
@ 1985-12-06 0:42 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:08 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:41 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512031113.AA07624@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
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>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
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>pao
>\fsimtel20
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>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 03:05:21 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 03:05:04-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA07182; Tue, 3 Dec 85 02:44:28 PST
>Date: 2 Dec 85 19:26:05 GMT
>From: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (D Gary Grady)
>Organization: Duke U Comp Ctr
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <831@ecsvax.UUCP>
>References: <851202020417.324184@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>An article by James Fallows in the December _Atlantic_ might be of
>interest to those debating the merits of a system for licensing
>programmers. Fallows notes that creating a closed "guild" system often
>leads to an enforced mediocrity that puts emphasis on input (years of
>education, passing an entrance exam, perhaps some "continuing
>education" requirement) rather than output (being able to do the job).
>There is some justification for licensing those serving the general
>public when the public would otherwise have trouble evaluating
>qualifications and when a mistake could be disastrous, as in law and
>medicine. I am prepared to argue that the current licensing schemes in
>those professions are better than nothing, but not much. In the case of
>programmers, however, those hiring are in a better position to judge
>individual qualifications than the public. Professional licenses for
>programmers? I say it's spinach, and to hell with it.
>--
>D Gary Grady
>Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706
>(919) 684-3695
>USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 22:07 (none) ,
@ 1985-12-06 0:47 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:10 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:42 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512032207.AA19265@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
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>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 13:58:10 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 13:46:26-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA16213; Tue, 3 Dec 85 11:43:43 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 18:23:07 GMT
>From: ucdavis!lll-crg!peirce@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Michael Peirce)
>Organization: Lawrence Livermore Labs, CRG, Livermore Ca
>Subject: Ada Pretty Printers?
>Message-Id: <1096@lll-crg.ARpA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>If anyone knows anything about the availability of any Ada Pretty
>Printing programs could they please send me some info?
>-- michael peirce (peirce@lll-crg)
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 7:50 (none) ,
@ 1985-12-06 0:47 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:13 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:44 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040750.AA00440@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 23:45:09 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 23:42:20-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27538; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:22:05 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 9:09 ` (none) ,
@ 1985-12-06 0:49 ` info-ada
1985-12-10 11:32 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:15 ` (none) info-ada
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040909.AA01814@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 01:00:22 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 00:57:45-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27910; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:48:47 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 16:41 (none) RCONN
@ 1985-12-06 0:59 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:29 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:46 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 0:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041641.AA08159@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 08:24:18 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:23:24-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: PDL Survey Results
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447055.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my PDL survey. As we suspected
>from the beginning, the results were inconclusive, but some information
>which may be of interest came to light. The complete survey and all
>responses is in PD:<ADA.GENERAL>PDLSURVEY.DOC.
>
> Following is the forward to this file.
>
> Complete copies of the survey file will be emailed to the respondants.
>
> Rick
>
>
>---- PDLSURVEY.DOC Foreword ----
>
> DDN-Based Ada PDL Survey
> 4 December 1985
> Richard Conn
>
>
> A survey was conducted on the Defense Data Network in September to
>November 1985 to determine what PDLs were currently in use by members of the
>INFO-ADA and ADA-SW mailing list communities. It was expected that this survey
>would not be conclusive in any way since (1) the survey audience was limited
>and (2) of those who would receive the survey, only a few would respond. It
>was hoped that the survey would, at the most, indicate if a definite trend
>toward one particular PDL exists.
>
> I have concluded from the few (less than 10) responses received that
>a trend toward one particular Ada PDL is NOT evident. There is some
>indication that there is a desire to Ada PDLs internally, which will
>result in a lack of standardization.
>
> Overview of responses:
>
> Identification of Ada PDL Number of Users
> ------------------------- ---------------
> ANNA by David Luckham 1
> Byron by Intermetrics 3
> Caine-Farber-Gordon PDL/81 1
> Internally-developed 4
> PDL/Ada by IBM 1
>
>
> Following are the responses received from the survey. They are
>presented here because of their information content and the potential value
>of this information to the community.
>
>
>REFERENCE
> Larry Lindley, Naval Avionics Center, "Survey of Ada-Based PDLs,
>Final Report, January 1985," write to:
>
> Commanding Officer
> Naval Avionics Center
> 21st Street and Arlington Avenue
> Indianapolis, IN 46218
>
>Contract Number N00163-84C-0300, Done by Computer Technology Associates, Inc,
>7927 Jones Branch Drive, Suite 600W, McLean, VA 22102 and Advanced Software
>Methods, Inc, 17021 Sioux Lane, Gaithersburg, MD 20878
>
>
>DISCLAIMER
> No endorsement of any particular Ada PDL or company is expressed,
>or intended to be implied, by me in this forward. All content of this
>forward is my own opinion and not necessarily that of anyone or any company
>associated with me.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a023560; 27 Sep 85 3:55 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 00:48-PDT
>Sender: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Subject: [trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart): Re: Informa...]
>From: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: HalHart@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]27-Sep-85 00:48:33.HALHART>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 08:07 CDT
>
>Received: from UCB-VAX.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 25 Sep 85 11:58:55-PDT
> by UCB-VAX.ARPA (5.26/5.9)
> id AA01992; Wed, 25 Sep 85 12:12:17 PDT
>Date: 25 Sep 1985 0939-PDT (Wednesday)
>From: trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart)
>To: Richard_Conn <ucbvax!CSNET-RELAY.ARPA!conn%ti-eg.CSNET@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
>Cc: HalHart@eclb, trwrb!trwspp!Kerner@Berkeley.EDU, Kerner@eclb,
> trwrb!trwspp!Belz@Berkeley.EDU
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 85 16:15 CDT.
> <8509250048.AA16615@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
>Return-Path: <trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU>
>Message-ID: <8509251639.AA03911@spp1.UUCP>
>
>Rick,
>
>TRW is using TRW's own Ada-based PDL (which we simply call
>"Ada PDL") on 2 major projects (OSIS for the Navy, AMPE for
>the AF(?)) & several medium or small projects. Plus, it will (would?)
>be used on any of many other projects, of varying sizes, which
>we have bid.
>
>I am not sure, but I think at least one TRW project (at a non-
>California site) has used Intermetrics' Byron; at least, they
>intended to try it out.
>
>I appreciate your trying to so "measure" popularity or
>acceptability of various Ada-based PDLs, but as you suggest,
>this will be hard. First, many of the Ada-based PDLs are
>proprietary (esp. their suites of support tools), so they can
>not possibly be used by more than 1 company. Also, number of
>projects or, even better, aggregate dollar value or programs
>sizes, might be a better measure which you would have little hope
>of capturing. And, finally, it is certainly too early to start
>drawing objective conclusions about the successes & failures of
>these early usages (both due to future completion dates of large
>projects & inevitable improvements to each PDL & its tools).
>
> -- Hal Hart, TRW
>
>
>PS: I assume you are aware of the semi-yearly update of Ada PDLs
>status which Judy Kerner publishes in Ada LETTERS. It includes
>dozens of listings, & I know that she just early this month
>completed her own canvass of every entry. Although her new matrix
>probably won't appear in your mailbox for months, I suggest that
>you request an advance copy from her (2 electronic addresses above).
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from nosc-tecr.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a002680;
> 27 Sep 85 11:45 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 0832-PST
>From: Contr22 <CONTR22@NOSC-TECR>
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Reply-To: CONTR22@NOSC-TECR
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 13:41 CDT
>
>At Magnavox, we are using the Byron language from Intermetrics for all
>AFATDS software.
>
>Linda Rising
>Magnavox
>Ft. Wayne, IN
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a010492; 29 Sep 85 21:40 EDT
>Date: 29 Sep 1985 18:36-PDT
>Sender: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>Subject: Informal PDL Survey
>From: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]29-Sep-85 18:36:55.CDONALDSON>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Mon, 30 Sep 85 00:28 CDT
>
>Hello!
>
> I believe we met at the IEEE Ada as a PDL working group meeting
>in Clairmont, California earlier this year ... I was representing
>Harris Corporation. I was interested in your PDL survey for two
>reasons: 1) I am currently doing work for Larry Lindley, and
>2) I can give you some information on PDL usage at Harris
>
> Based on Christine Youngblut's findings in Larry's survey, I have
>been desigining an experiment concerning the use of Ada PDLs for the
>STARS Methodology Team. We are interested in the effect of PDL
>characteristics on process and product quality. We have
>decided to look at the effects of including some specific information
>regarding requirements traceability, exception handling, and inter-unit
>dependencies, the use of structured English in combination with Ada,
>and the provision of special templates geared for the particular design
>methodology to be used -- in this case Object-Oriented Design as
>defined by Booch. The expeirment will consist of four teams of four
>people each for six months, where they (each team) will design the
>same problem using a different PDL, and implementing the problem in
>Ada. Depending upon the results of the first phase, there will be
>a second phase of the same length with two PDLs. If you are interested
>I would be happy to send you a copy of the plan I prepared for Larry,
>it is about 130 pages right now and so if you could send me your
>mailing address I will forward it to you. I am always looking for
>criticism/comments.
>
> Although I am soon to be leaving the company to work for Software
>Productivity Solutions, I can tell you a little about use of PDLs,
>especially Ada PDLs, at Harris. Of course, the Harris Ada PDL has
>been used the most on a variety of projects. Because it is a complex
>PDL supporting a very sophisticated methodology, it has not always
>been well received. In addition, we used the PDL/Ada from IBM
>on a project. No other Ada PDLs have been used at Harris, although
>Caine Farber Gordon PDL/81 has been used and there is talk about
>looking at their Ada style.
>
> I am very interested in the results of your survey since it
>relates to work I am and will be doing for Larry, and would appreciate
>your keeping me abreast of your findings. I am particularly interested
>in any comments you receive on structured English, and of course the
>explicit information I mentioned above (exceptions, requirements traceability,
>inter-unit dependnecies).
>
> The experiment is a competitively procured contract (RFP out
>now) expected to start up in January.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Cammie Donaldson
>305-242-5677
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mitre-bedford.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a001561;
> 9 Oct 85 13:41 EDT
>Date: Wednesday, 25 Sep 1985 09:13-EDT
>From: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-reply-to: Your message of Tuesday, 24 Sep 1985 17:15-EDT.
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Thu, 10 Oct 85 10:45 CDT
>
> We have a small project going here at MITRE which is using David
>Luckham's ANNA annotation extensions to the Ada language as a Program
>Design Language. ANNA was described in the March issue of IEEE Software.
>We have been looking at how using a more formal Ada PDL affects what is
>presented at a PDR and a CDR, as well as how much better the final system
>looks. Currently we are in the middle of designing the system, we just had
>a PDR review.
> Christopher Byrnes
> The MITRE Corporation
> Burlington Road
> M. S. A180T
> Bedford, Mass. 01730
>
> cb@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA
> ...decvax!linus!bccvax!cb.UUCP
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mit-multics.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a016072;
> 15 Oct 85 18:03 EDT
>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 85 17:50 EDT
>From: Avery%mit-multics.arpa@CSNET-RELAY
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: Richard_Conn <conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY>
>In-Reply-To: Message of 24 Sep 85 17:15 EDT from Richard_Conn
>Message-ID: <851015215050.533981@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Wed, 16 Oct 85 07:44 CDT
>
>
>Rick,
>
> GTE Government Systems has an internal Ada Design Language which is
>used throughout the corporation. If you have any further questions or
>need any further information, please contact Charlene Hayden.
>
> Hayden -at MIT-MULTICS
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
> Texas Instruments is developing its own Ada PDL. TI intends to use
>this PDL internally and is considering marketing it, but no decision has been
>made yet. TI has also used the Byron Ada PDL of Intermetrics internally on
>a government contract.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
> Contact Alan Woody, Phone 214-952-2136, DDN Mail
> WOODY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY, for questions
>
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 18:34 (none) RCONN
@ 1985-12-06 1:02 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:32 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:46 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041834.AA10551@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 10:27:45 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:25:28-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: Sorry
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447432.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> I accidentally sent the WHOLE PDL survey file rather
>than just the foreword.
> Rick
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-05 6:09 (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:04 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:37 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:47 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512050609.AA24463@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 21:56:25 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 21:54:48-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA24127; Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>From: ihnp4!mgnetp!wnuxb!laj@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Message-Id: <8512050554.AA24127@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA24281; 4 Dec 85 23:35:10 CST (Wed)
>To: mgnetp!info-ada
>Subject: Re: (none)
>Newsgroups: net.lang.ada
>In-Reply-To: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL
>Cc:
>
> What is this garbage !!!
>
> And what is it doing on the net !!!
>
> Larry Johnson
> ihnp4!wnuxb!laj
>
>>*<info-ada>archive.current
>>\fradc-tops20
>>ada
>>\fhel-ace
>>blyskal
>>\fwisc-crys
>>pb
>>\fbrl-bmd
>>genesis
>>\fwisc-rsch
>>jerome
>>\fucla-cs
>>amiram
>>\fjpl-vlsi
>>august
>>larry
>>jplanderson
>>\fibm-sj
>>alpern
>>\foslo-vax
>>info-ada
>>\fnosc-f4
>>bboard
>>\fsu-sierra
>>bryan
>>haberler
>>rosenblum
>>pack
>>mendal
>>\fnrl-aic
>>bbd-info-ada
>>\fnosc
>>ccvax.jackie
>>elmer.jensen
>>hobler
>>ccvax.dukelow
>>jacoby
>>CCVAX.colborn
>>CCVAX.tokoro
>>CCVAX.hesser
>>CCVAX.johnd
>>sdcsvax!bill
>>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>>\fari-hq1
>>charlie
>>\fddn1
>>dca-pgs
>>navtelcom
>>\fucla-locus
>>ada-fans
>>\fsri-kl
>>denny
>>mercado
>>sarvela
>>BillW
>>Mathis
>>\fmitre-bedford
>>gte
>>gah
>>munck
>>mcc
>>Info-Ada
>>bcr
>>pjl
>>johnm
>>\fnosc-tecr
>>contr22
>>CONTR23
>>contr04
>>\fll-vlsi
>>glenn
>>\fdec-marlboro
>>kania
>>rehill
>>\foffice-2
>>kirk.tym
>>\fsri-unix
>>richard
>>\flll-mfe
>>info-ada%lll
>>COLBORN%SAV
>>\fsu-sushi
>>samuel
>>PACK
>>\flogicon
>>ada
>>\fcit-vax
>>engvax!info-ada
>>\faids-unix
>>info-ada
>>\frand-relay
>>info-ada.arizona
>>\fbrl
>>info-ada
>>\fred.rutgers.edu
>>info-ada-bboard
>>\fdrea-xx
>>info-ada
>>\famsaa
>>jer
>>\ftl-20b
>>info-ada
>>\fdecwrl
>>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>>seki%tkov60.dec
>>\foregon-grad
>>info-ada
>>\fdarcom-hq
>>ada
>>\fdenver
>>info-ada
>>\fford-wdl1
>>ada
>>\fgunter-adam
>>porter
>>DSDC-SDT2
>>\fhi-multics
>>cornhill
>>gailly.ada
>>stachour
>>vaughanw
>>kamrad.cst
>>hkberg.cscswtec
>>eachus.nmlsppt
>>hi-info-ada
>>\flanl
>>post-info-ada
>>\fusc-isi
>>isi-info-ada
>>DRUFFEL
>>GOODENOUGH
>>\fanl-mcs
>>dritz
>>\fusc-isid
>>inco
>>\fnbs-vms
>>kuhn
>>zelkowitz
>>\fmit-oz
>>egk
>>pao
>>\fsimtel20
>>rmathias
>>RCONN
>>\fNRL-CSS
>>info-ada
>>\fNYU
>>INFO_ADA
>>\fXEROX
>>"Info-Ada^.x"
>>\fbbn-clxx
>>mdean
>>\fRUTGERS
>>MCGRATH
>>\fS1-A
>>JMB
>>\fSU-AI
>>REP
>>DCL
>>\fsri-csl
>>bboard-info-ada
>>\fBerkeley
>>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>>\fMaryland
>>ada-bbd
>>\fRADC-MULTICS
>>Karlovic
>>Gilyeat
>>\fcornell
>>infoada
>>\fUSC-ECL
>>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>>\fUSC-ECLB
>>HFISCHER
>>\fUSC-ISIE
>>BERTAPELLE
>>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>>DKREBILL
>>SAC.8AFDPI
>>SAC.ADDA
>>\fUSC-ISIB
>>HOLG
>>\fsri-spam
>>trudy
>>\fUSC-ISIA
>>DEVCTR
>>\fBBNA
>>RSchaaf
>>\fsri-nic
>>info-ada-nic
>>\fUTAH-20
>>INFO-ADA
>>\fWASHINGTON
>>DMJ
>>Sloan
>>\fCISL
>>Info-ADA%pco
>>\fDCA-EMS
>>Cleaveland
>>\fwsmr01
>>hhamilto
>>\flll-tis-b
>>info-ada-news
>>\fECLB
>>BSCHAAR
>>eberard
>>\fcmu-cs-g
>>trk
>>\fharvard
>>info-ada-incoming
>>\fseismo
>>vrdxhq!info-ada
>>\fucbdali
>>yee
>>\feglin-vax
>>harbaughs
>>\fSRI-AI
>>GOHEEN
>>\fnscw-wo
>>jcavall
>>\fACC
>>BBOARD.ADA
>>\fnprdc
>>info-ada-nprdc
>>\fAmes-VMSB
>>welch
>>\fudel
>>dist-info-ada
>>\fmitre-gateway
>>anderson
>>\fedwards-2060
>>info-ada
>>\fpica-lca
>>kkramer
>>\fnswc-wo
>>cottrell
>>\fisia
>>mclaughlinjr
>>\ftopaz
>>princeton!siemens!emery
>>\fcmu-cs-pt
>>cmu-info-ada
>>\fwpafb-afita
>>rgross
>>lawlis
>>pnagarse
>>richard
>>\fUSC-ISIF
>>EBERARD
>>\f
>>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
>>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
>>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
>>From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>>cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
>>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
>>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>
>> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
>>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
>>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
>>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
>>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
>>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
>>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable :o perform the
>>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
>>to now perform professionally.
>> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
>>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
>>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
>>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
>>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
>>impossible to do a professional job.} ]
>> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
>>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
>>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
>>continue in an area that is growing far faster`than our poor ability to
>>eduate and train.
>> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
>>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
>>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
>>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
>>regulation.
>> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
>>know a good way of achieving same.
>> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
>>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
>>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
>>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 4:24 (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 0:41 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:06 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:40 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:48 ` (none) info-ada
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512030424.AA00479@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
>Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
>Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
>Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
> id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
>Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
>To: info-ada@isif.arpa
>Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
>
>As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
>glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
>included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
>notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
>please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
>info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
>
>One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
>Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
>will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
>your pointers appropriately.
>
>-- Karl --
>
>DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
>UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 11:13 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:42 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:08 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:41 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512031113.AA07624@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 03:05:21 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 03:05:04-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA07182; Tue, 3 Dec 85 02:44:28 PST
>Date: 2 Dec 85 19:26:05 GMT
>From: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (D Gary Grady)
>Organization: Duke U Comp Ctr
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <831@ecsvax.UUCP>
>References: <851202020417.324184@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>An article by James Fallows in the December _Atlantic_ might be of
>interest to those debating the merits of a system for licensing
>programmers. Fallows notes that creating a closed "guild" system often
>leads to an enforced mediocrity that puts emphasis on input (years of
>education, passing an entrance exam, perhaps some "continuing
>education" requirement) rather than output (being able to do the job).
>There is some justification for licensing those serving the general
>public when the public would otherwise have trouble evaluating
>qualifications and when a mistake could be disastrous, as in law and
>medicine. I am prepared to argue that the current licensing schemes in
>those professions are better than nothing, but not much. In the case of
>programmers, however, those hiring are in a better position to judge
>individual qualifications than the public. Professional licenses for
>programmers? I say it's spinach, and to hell with it.
>--
>D Gary Grady
>Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706
>(919) 684-3695
>USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 22:07 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:10 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:42 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512032207.AA19265@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 13:58:10 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 13:46:26-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA16213; Tue, 3 Dec 85 11:43:43 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 18:23:07 GMT
>From: ucdavis!lll-crg!peirce@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Michael Peirce)
>Organization: Lawrence Livermore Labs, CRG, Livermore Ca
>Subject: Ada Pretty Printers?
>Message-Id: <1096@lll-crg.ARpA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>If anyone knows anything about the availability of any Ada Pretty
>Printing programs could they please send me some info?
>-- michael peirce (peirce@lll-crg)
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 7:50 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:13 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:44 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040750.AA00440@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 23:45:09 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 23:42:20-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27538; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:22:05 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 9:09 ` (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:49 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:15 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:45 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 5:04 ` (none)??? Dick Dunn
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040909.AA01814@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 01:00:22 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 00:57:45-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27910; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:48:47 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 16:41 (none) RCONN
1985-12-06 0:59 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:29 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:46 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041641.AA08159@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 08:24:18 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:23:24-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: PDL Survey Results
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447055.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my PDL survey. As we suspected
>from the beginning, the results were inconclusive, but some information
>which may be of interest came to light. The complete survey and all
>responses is in PD:<ADA.GENERAL>PDLSURVEY.DOC.
>
> Following is the forward to this file.
>
> Complete copies of the survey file will be emailed to the respondants.
>
> Rick
>
>
>---- PDLSURVEY.DOC Foreword ----
>
> DDN-Based Ada PDL Survey
> 4 December 1985
> Richard Conn
>
>
> A survey was conducted on the Defense Data Network in September to
>November 1985 to determine what PDLs were currently in use by members of the
>INFO-ADA and ADA-SW mailing list communities. It was expected that this survey
>would not be conclusive in any way since (1) the survey audience was limited
>and (2) of those who would receive the survey, only a few would respond. It
>was hoped that the survey would, at the most, indicate if a definite trend
>toward one particular PDL exists.
>
> I have concluded from the few (less than 10) responses received that
>a trend toward one particular Ada PDL is NOT evident. There is some
>indication that there is a desire to Ada PDLs internally, which will
>result in a lack of standardization.
>
> Overview of responses:
>
> Identification of Ada PDL Number of Users
> ------------------------- ---------------
> ANNA by David Luckham 1
> Byron by Intermetrics 3
> Caine-Farber-Gordon PDL/81 1
> Internally-developed 4
> PDL/Ada by IBM 1
>
>
> Following are the responses received from the survey. They are
>presented here because of their information content and the potential value
>of this information to the community.
>
>
>REFERENCE
> Larry Lindley, Naval Avionics Center, "Survey of Ada-Based PDLs,
>Final Report, January 1985," write to:
>
> Commanding Officer
> Naval Avionics Center
> 21st Street and Arlington Avenue
> Indianapolis, IN 46218
>
>Contract Number N00163-84C-0300, Done by Computer Technology Associates, Inc,
>7927 Jones Branch Drive, Suite 600W, McLean, VA 22102 and Advanced Software
>Methods, Inc, 17021 Sioux Lane, Gaithersburg, MD 20878
>
>
>DISCLAIMER
> No endorsement of any particular Ada PDL or company is expressed,
>or intended to be implied, by me in this forward. All content of this
>forward is my own opinion and not necessarily that of anyone or any company
>associated with me.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a023560; 27 Sep 85 3:55 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 00:48-PDT
>Sender: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Subject: [trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart): Re: Informa...]
>From: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: HalHart@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]27-Sep-85 00:48:33.HALHART>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 08:07 CDT
>
>Received: from UCB-VAX.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 25 Sep 85 11:58:55-PDT
> by UCB-VAX.ARPA (5.26/5.9)
> id AA01992; Wed, 25 Sep 85 12:12:17 PDT
>Date: 25 Sep 1985 0939-PDT (Wednesday)
>From: trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart)
>To: Richard_Conn <ucbvax!CSNET-RELAY.ARPA!conn%ti-eg.CSNET@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
>Cc: HalHart@eclb, trwrb!trwspp!Kerner@Berkeley.EDU, Kerner@eclb,
> trwrb!trwspp!Belz@Berkeley.EDU
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 85 16:15 CDT.
> <8509250048.AA16615@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
>Return-Path: <trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU>
>Message-ID: <8509251639.AA03911@spp1.UUCP>
>
>Rick,
>
>TRW is using TRW's own Ada-based PDL (which we simply call
>"Ada PDL") on 2 major projects (OSIS for the Navy, AMPE for
>the AF(?)) & several medium or small projects. Plus, it will (would?)
>be used on any of many other projects, of varying sizes, which
>we have bid.
>
>I am not sure, but I think at least one TRW project (at a non-
>California site) has used Intermetrics' Byron; at least, they
>intended to try it out.
>
>I appreciate your trying to so "measure" popularity or
>acceptability of various Ada-based PDLs, but as you suggest,
>this will be hard. First, many of the Ada-based PDLs are
>proprietary (esp. their suites of support tools), so they can
>not possibly be used by more than 1 company. Also, number of
>projects or, even better, aggregate dollar value or programs
>sizes, might be a better measure which you would have little hope
>of capturing. And, finally, it is certainly too early to start
>drawing objective conclusions about the successes & failures of
>these early usages (both due to future completion dates of large
>projects & inevitable improvements to each PDL & its tools).
>
> -- Hal Hart, TRW
>
>
>PS: I assume you are aware of the semi-yearly update of Ada PDLs
>status which Judy Kerner publishes in Ada LETTERS. It includes
>dozens of listings, & I know that she just early this month
>completed her own canvass of every entry. Although her new matrix
>probably won't appear in your mailbox for months, I suggest that
>you request an advance copy from her (2 electronic addresses above).
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from nosc-tecr.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a002680;
> 27 Sep 85 11:45 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 0832-PST
>From: Contr22 <CONTR22@NOSC-TECR>
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Reply-To: CONTR22@NOSC-TECR
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 13:41 CDT
>
>At Magnavox, we are using the Byron language from Intermetrics for all
>AFATDS software.
>
>Linda Rising
>Magnavox
>Ft. Wayne, IN
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a010492; 29 Sep 85 21:40 EDT
>Date: 29 Sep 1985 18:36-PDT
>Sender: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>Subject: Informal PDL Survey
>From: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]29-Sep-85 18:36:55.CDONALDSON>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Mon, 30 Sep 85 00:28 CDT
>
>Hello!
>
> I believe we met at the IEEE Ada as a PDL working group meeting
>in Clairmont, California earlier this year ... I was representing
>Harris Corporation. I was interested in your PDL survey for two
>reasons: 1) I am currently doing work for Larry Lindley, and
>2) I can give you some information on PDL usage at Harris
>
> Based on Christine Youngblut's findings in Larry's survey, I have
>been desigining an experiment concerning the use of Ada PDLs for the
>STARS Methodology Team. We are interested in the effect of PDL
>characteristics on process and product quality. We have
>decided to look at the effects of including some specific information
>regarding requirements traceability, exception handling, and inter-unit
>dependencies, the use of structured English in combination with Ada,
>and the provision of special templates geared for the particular design
>methodology to be used -- in this case Object-Oriented Design as
>defined by Booch. The expeirment will consist of four teams of four
>people each for six months, where they (each team) will design the
>same problem using a different PDL, and implementing the problem in
>Ada. Depending upon the results of the first phase, there will be
>a second phase of the same length with two PDLs. If you are interested
>I would be happy to send you a copy of the plan I prepared for Larry,
>it is about 130 pages right now and so if you could send me your
>mailing address I will forward it to you. I am always looking for
>criticism/comments.
>
> Although I am soon to be leaving the company to work for Software
>Productivity Solutions, I can tell you a little about use of PDLs,
>especially Ada PDLs, at Harris. Of course, the Harris Ada PDL has
>been used the most on a variety of projects. Because it is a complex
>PDL supporting a very sophisticated methodology, it has not always
>been well received. In addition, we used the PDL/Ada from IBM
>on a project. No other Ada PDLs have been used at Harris, although
>Caine Farber Gordon PDL/81 has been used and there is talk about
>looking at their Ada style.
>
> I am very interested in the results of your survey since it
>relates to work I am and will be doing for Larry, and would appreciate
>your keeping me abreast of your findings. I am particularly interested
>in any comments you receive on structured English, and of course the
>explicit information I mentioned above (exceptions, requirements traceability,
>inter-unit dependnecies).
>
> The experiment is a competitively procured contract (RFP out
>now) expected to start up in January.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Cammie Donaldson
>305-242-5677
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mitre-bedford.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a001561;
> 9 Oct 85 13:41 EDT
>Date: Wednesday, 25 Sep 1985 09:13-EDT
>From: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-reply-to: Your message of Tuesday, 24 Sep 1985 17:15-EDT.
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Thu, 10 Oct 85 10:45 CDT
>
> We have a small project going here at MITRE which is using David
>Luckham's ANNA annotation extensions to the Ada language as a Program
>Design Language. ANNA was described in the March issue of IEEE Software.
>We have been looking at how using a more formal Ada PDL affects what is
>presented at a PDR and a CDR, as well as how much better the final system
>looks. Currently we are in the middle of designing the system, we just had
>a PDR review.
> Christopher Byrnes
> The MITRE Corporation
> Burlington Road
> M. S. A180T
> Bedford, Mass. 01730
>
> cb@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA
> ...decvax!linus!bccvax!cb.UUCP
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mit-multics.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a016072;
> 15 Oct 85 18:03 EDT
>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 85 17:50 EDT
>From: Avery%mit-multics.arpa@CSNET-RELAY
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: Richard_Conn <conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY>
>In-Reply-To: Message of 24 Sep 85 17:15 EDT from Richard_Conn
>Message-ID: <851015215050.533981@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Wed, 16 Oct 85 07:44 CDT
>
>
>Rick,
>
> GTE Government Systems has an internal Ada Design Language which is
>used throughout the corporation. If you have any further questions or
>need any further information, please contact Charlene Hayden.
>
> Hayden -at MIT-MULTICS
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
> Texas Instruments is developing its own Ada PDL. TI intends to use
>this PDL internally and is considering marketing it, but no decision has been
>made yet. TI has also used the Byron Ada PDL of Intermetrics internally on
>a government contract.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
> Contact Alan Woody, Phone 214-952-2136, DDN Mail
> WOODY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY, for questions
>
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 18:34 (none) RCONN
1985-12-06 1:02 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:32 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:46 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041834.AA10551@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 10:27:45 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:25:28-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: Sorry
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447432.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> I accidentally sent the WHOLE PDL survey file rather
>than just the foreword.
> Rick
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-05 6:09 (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:04 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:37 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:47 ` (none) info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512050609.AA24463@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 21:56:25 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 21:54:48-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA24127; Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>From: ihnp4!mgnetp!wnuxb!laj@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Message-Id: <8512050554.AA24127@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA24281; 4 Dec 85 23:35:10 CST (Wed)
>To: mgnetp!info-ada
>Subject: Re: (none)
>Newsgroups: net.lang.ada
>In-Reply-To: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL
>Cc:
>
> What is this garbage !!!
>
> And what is it doing on the net !!!
>
> Larry Johnson
> ihnp4!wnuxb!laj
>
>>*<info-ada>archive.current
>>\fradc-tops20
>>ada
>>\fhel-ace
>>blyskal
>>\fwisc-crys
>>pb
>>\fbrl-bmd
>>genesis
>>\fwisc-rsch
>>jerome
>>\fucla-cs
>>amiram
>>\fjpl-vlsi
>>august
>>larry
>>jplanderson
>>\fibm-sj
>>alpern
>>\foslo-vax
>>info-ada
>>\fnosc-f4
>>bboard
>>\fsu-sierra
>>bryan
>>haberler
>>rosenblum
>>pack
>>mendal
>>\fnrl-aic
>>bbd-info-ada
>>\fnosc
>>ccvax.jackie
>>elmer.jensen
>>hobler
>>ccvax.dukelow
>>jacoby
>>CCVAX.colborn
>>CCVAX.tokoro
>>CCVAX.hesser
>>CCVAX.johnd
>>sdcsvax!bill
>>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>>\fari-hq1
>>charlie
>>\fddn1
>>dca-pgs
>>navtelcom
>>\fucla-locus
>>ada-fans
>>\fsri-kl
>>denny
>>mercado
>>sarvela
>>BillW
>>Mathis
>>\fmitre-bedford
>>gte
>>gah
>>munck
>>mcc
>>Info-Ada
>>bcr
>>pjl
>>johnm
>>\fnosc-tecr
>>contr22
>>CONTR23
>>contr04
>>\fll-vlsi
>>glenn
>>\fdec-marlboro
>>kania
>>rehill
>>\foffice-2
>>kirk.tym
>>\fsri-unix
>>richard
>>\flll-mfe
>>info-ada%lll
>>COLBORN%SAV
>>\fsu-sushi
>>samuel
>>PACK
>>\flogicon
>>ada
>>\fcit-vax
>>engvax!info-ada
>>\faids-unix
>>info-ada
>>\frand-relay
>>info-ada.arizona
>>\fbrl
>>info-ada
>>\fred.rutgers.edu
>>info-ada-bboard
>>\fdrea-xx
>>info-ada
>>\famsaa
>>jer
>>\ftl-20b
>>info-ada
>>\fdecwrl
>>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>>seki%tkov60.dec
>>\foregon-grad
>>info-ada
>>\fdarcom-hq
>>ada
>>\fdenver
>>info-ada
>>\fford-wdl1
>>ada
>>\fgunter-adam
>>porter
>>DSDC-SDT2
>>\fhi-multics
>>cornhill
>>gailly.ada
>>stachour
>>vaughanw
>>kamrad.cst
>>hkberg.cscswtec
>>eachus.nmlsppt
>>hi-info-ada
>>\flanl
>>post-info-ada
>>\fusc-isi
>>isi-info-ada
>>DRUFFEL
>>GOODENOUGH
>>\fanl-mcs
>>dritz
>>\fusc-isid
>>inco
>>\fnbs-vms
>>kuhn
>>zelkowitz
>>\fmit-oz
>>egk
>>pao
>>\fsimtel20
>>rmathias
>>RCONN
>>\fNRL-CSS
>>info-ada
>>\fNYU
>>INFO_ADA
>>\fXEROX
>>"Info-Ada^.x"
>>\fbbn-clxx
>>mdean
>>\fRUTGERS
>>MCGRATH
>>\fS1-A
>>JMB
>>\fSU-AI
>>REP
>>DCL
>>\fsri-csl
>>bboard-info-ada
>>\fBerkeley
>>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>>\fMaryland
>>ada-bbd
>>\fRADC-MULTICS
>>Karlovic
>>Gilyeat
>>\fcornell
>>infoada
>>\fUSC-ECL
>>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>>\fUSC-ECLB
>>HFISCHER
>>\fUSC-ISIE
>>BERTAPELLE
>>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>>DKREBILL
>>SAC.8AFDPI
>>SAC.ADDA
>>\fUSC-ISIB
>>HOLG
>>\fsri-spam
>>trudy
>>\fUSC-ISIA
>>DEVCTR
>>\fBBNA
>>RSchaaf
>>\fsri-nic
>>info-ada-nic
>>\fUTAH-20
>>INFO-ADA
>>\fWASHINGTON
>>DMJ
>>Sloan
>>\fCISL
>>Info-ADA%pco
>>\fDCA-EMS
>>Cleaveland
>>\fwsmr01
>>hhamilto
>>\flll-tis-b
>>info-ada-news
>>\fECLB
>>BSCHAAR
>>eberard
>>\fcmu-cs-g
>>trk
>>\fharvard
>>info-ada-incoming
>>\fseismo
>>vrdxhq!info-ada
>>\fucbdali
>>yee
>>\feglin-vax
>>harbaughs
>>\fSRI-AI
>>GOHEEN
>>\fnscw-wo
>>jcavall
>>\fACC
>>BBOARD.ADA
>>\fnprdc
>>info-ada-nprdc
>>\fAmes-VMSB
>>welch
>>\fudel
>>dist-info-ada
>>\fmitre-gateway
>>anderson
>>\fedwards-2060
>>info-ada
>>\fpica-lca
>>kkramer
>>\fnswc-wo
>>cottrell
>>\fisia
>>mclaughlinjr
>>\ftopaz
>>princeton!siemens!emery
>>\fcmu-cs-pt
>>cmu-info-ada
>>\fwpafb-afita
>>rgross
>>lawlis
>>pnagarse
>>richard
>>\fUSC-ISIF
>>EBERARD
>>\f
>>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
>>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
>>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
>>From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>>cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
>>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
>>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>
>> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
>>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
>>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
>>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
>>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
>>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
>>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable :o perform the
>>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
>>to now perform professionally.
>> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
>>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
>>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
>>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
>>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
>>impossible to do a professional job.} ]
>> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
>>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
>>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
>>continue in an area that is growing far faster`than our poor ability to
>>eduate and train.
>> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
>>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
>>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
>>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
>>regulation.
>> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
>>know a good way of achieving same.
>> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
>>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
>>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
>>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 4:24 (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 0:41 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:06 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:40 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 1:48 ` (none) info-ada
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512030424.AA00479@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
>Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
>Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
>Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
> id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
>Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
>To: info-ada@isif.arpa
>Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
>
>As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
>glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
>included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
>notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
>please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
>info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
>
>One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
>Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
>will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
>your pointers appropriately.
>
>-- Karl --
>
>DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
>UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 11:13 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:42 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:08 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:41 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512031113.AA07624@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 03:05:21 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 03:05:04-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA07182; Tue, 3 Dec 85 02:44:28 PST
>Date: 2 Dec 85 19:26:05 GMT
>From: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (D Gary Grady)
>Organization: Duke U Comp Ctr
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <831@ecsvax.UUCP>
>References: <851202020417.324184@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>An article by James Fallows in the December _Atlantic_ might be of
>interest to those debating the merits of a system for licensing
>programmers. Fallows notes that creating a closed "guild" system often
>leads to an enforced mediocrity that puts emphasis on input (years of
>education, passing an entrance exam, perhaps some "continuing
>education" requirement) rather than output (being able to do the job).
>There is some justification for licensing those serving the general
>public when the public would otherwise have trouble evaluating
>qualifications and when a mistake could be disastrous, as in law and
>medicine. I am prepared to argue that the current licensing schemes in
>those professions are better than nothing, but not much. In the case of
>programmers, however, those hiring are in a better position to judge
>individual qualifications than the public. Professional licenses for
>programmers? I say it's spinach, and to hell with it.
>--
>D Gary Grady
>Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706
>(919) 684-3695
>USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 22:07 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:10 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:42 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512032207.AA19265@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 13:58:10 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 13:46:26-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA16213; Tue, 3 Dec 85 11:43:43 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 18:23:07 GMT
>From: ucdavis!lll-crg!peirce@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Michael Peirce)
>Organization: Lawrence Livermore Labs, CRG, Livermore Ca
>Subject: Ada Pretty Printers?
>Message-Id: <1096@lll-crg.ARpA>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>If anyone knows anything about the availability of any Ada Pretty
>Printing programs could they please send me some info?
>-- michael peirce (peirce@lll-crg)
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 7:50 (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:47 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:13 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:44 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040750.AA00440@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 23:45:09 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 23:42:20-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27538; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:22:05 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 9:09 ` (none) ,
1985-12-06 0:49 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:15 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:45 ` info-ada
1985-12-06 5:04 ` (none)??? Dick Dunn
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512040909.AA01814@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 01:00:22 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 00:57:45-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA27910; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:48:47 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we
>so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
> If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with
>people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say.
>--
>Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
> ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 16:41 (none) RCONN
1985-12-06 0:59 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:29 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:46 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041641.AA08159@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 08:24:18 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:23:24-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: PDL Survey Results
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447055.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my PDL survey. As we suspected
>from the beginning, the results were inconclusive, but some information
>which may be of interest came to light. The complete survey and all
>responses is in PD:<ADA.GENERAL>PDLSURVEY.DOC.
>
> Following is the forward to this file.
>
> Complete copies of the survey file will be emailed to the respondants.
>
> Rick
>
>
>---- PDLSURVEY.DOC Foreword ----
>
> DDN-Based Ada PDL Survey
> 4 December 1985
> Richard Conn
>
>
> A survey was conducted on the Defense Data Network in September to
>November 1985 to determine what PDLs were currently in use by members of the
>INFO-ADA and ADA-SW mailing list communities. It was expected that this survey
>would not be conclusive in any way since (1) the survey audience was limited
>and (2) of those who would receive the survey, only a few would respond. It
>was hoped that the survey would, at the most, indicate if a definite trend
>toward one particular PDL exists.
>
> I have concluded from the few (less than 10) responses received that
>a trend toward one particular Ada PDL is NOT evident. There is some
>indication that there is a desire to Ada PDLs internally, which will
>result in a lack of standardization.
>
> Overview of responses:
>
> Identification of Ada PDL Number of Users
> ------------------------- ---------------
> ANNA by David Luckham 1
> Byron by Intermetrics 3
> Caine-Farber-Gordon PDL/81 1
> Internally-developed 4
> PDL/Ada by IBM 1
>
>
> Following are the responses received from the survey. They are
>presented here because of their information content and the potential value
>of this information to the community.
>
>
>REFERENCE
> Larry Lindley, Naval Avionics Center, "Survey of Ada-Based PDLs,
>Final Report, January 1985," write to:
>
> Commanding Officer
> Naval Avionics Center
> 21st Street and Arlington Avenue
> Indianapolis, IN 46218
>
>Contract Number N00163-84C-0300, Done by Computer Technology Associates, Inc,
>7927 Jones Branch Drive, Suite 600W, McLean, VA 22102 and Advanced Software
>Methods, Inc, 17021 Sioux Lane, Gaithersburg, MD 20878
>
>
>DISCLAIMER
> No endorsement of any particular Ada PDL or company is expressed,
>or intended to be implied, by me in this forward. All content of this
>forward is my own opinion and not necessarily that of anyone or any company
>associated with me.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a023560; 27 Sep 85 3:55 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 00:48-PDT
>Sender: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Subject: [trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart): Re: Informa...]
>From: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: HalHart@USC-ECLB.ARPA
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]27-Sep-85 00:48:33.HALHART>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 08:07 CDT
>
>Received: from UCB-VAX.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 25 Sep 85 11:58:55-PDT
> by UCB-VAX.ARPA (5.26/5.9)
> id AA01992; Wed, 25 Sep 85 12:12:17 PDT
>Date: 25 Sep 1985 0939-PDT (Wednesday)
>From: trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart)
>To: Richard_Conn <ucbvax!CSNET-RELAY.ARPA!conn%ti-eg.CSNET@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
>Cc: HalHart@eclb, trwrb!trwspp!Kerner@Berkeley.EDU, Kerner@eclb,
> trwrb!trwspp!Belz@Berkeley.EDU
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 85 16:15 CDT.
> <8509250048.AA16615@UCB-VAX.ARPA>
>Return-Path: <trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU>
>Message-ID: <8509251639.AA03911@spp1.UUCP>
>
>Rick,
>
>TRW is using TRW's own Ada-based PDL (which we simply call
>"Ada PDL") on 2 major projects (OSIS for the Navy, AMPE for
>the AF(?)) & several medium or small projects. Plus, it will (would?)
>be used on any of many other projects, of varying sizes, which
>we have bid.
>
>I am not sure, but I think at least one TRW project (at a non-
>California site) has used Intermetrics' Byron; at least, they
>intended to try it out.
>
>I appreciate your trying to so "measure" popularity or
>acceptability of various Ada-based PDLs, but as you suggest,
>this will be hard. First, many of the Ada-based PDLs are
>proprietary (esp. their suites of support tools), so they can
>not possibly be used by more than 1 company. Also, number of
>projects or, even better, aggregate dollar value or programs
>sizes, might be a better measure which you would have little hope
>of capturing. And, finally, it is certainly too early to start
>drawing objective conclusions about the successes & failures of
>these early usages (both due to future completion dates of large
>projects & inevitable improvements to each PDL & its tools).
>
> -- Hal Hart, TRW
>
>
>PS: I assume you are aware of the semi-yearly update of Ada PDLs
>status which Judy Kerner publishes in Ada LETTERS. It includes
>dozens of listings, & I know that she just early this month
>completed her own canvass of every entry. Although her new matrix
>probably won't appear in your mailbox for months, I suggest that
>you request an advance copy from her (2 electronic addresses above).
>
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>Received: from nosc-tecr.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a002680;
> 27 Sep 85 11:45 EDT
>Date: 27 Sep 1985 0832-PST
>From: Contr22 <CONTR22@NOSC-TECR>
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Reply-To: CONTR22@NOSC-TECR
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 13:41 CDT
>
>At Magnavox, we are using the Byron language from Intermetrics for all
>AFATDS software.
>
>Linda Rising
>Magnavox
>Ft. Wayne, IN
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a010492; 29 Sep 85 21:40 EDT
>Date: 29 Sep 1985 18:36-PDT
>Sender: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>Subject: Informal PDL Survey
>From: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY
>Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]29-Sep-85 18:36:55.CDONALDSON>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Mon, 30 Sep 85 00:28 CDT
>
>Hello!
>
> I believe we met at the IEEE Ada as a PDL working group meeting
>in Clairmont, California earlier this year ... I was representing
>Harris Corporation. I was interested in your PDL survey for two
>reasons: 1) I am currently doing work for Larry Lindley, and
>2) I can give you some information on PDL usage at Harris
>
> Based on Christine Youngblut's findings in Larry's survey, I have
>been desigining an experiment concerning the use of Ada PDLs for the
>STARS Methodology Team. We are interested in the effect of PDL
>characteristics on process and product quality. We have
>decided to look at the effects of including some specific information
>regarding requirements traceability, exception handling, and inter-unit
>dependencies, the use of structured English in combination with Ada,
>and the provision of special templates geared for the particular design
>methodology to be used -- in this case Object-Oriented Design as
>defined by Booch. The expeirment will consist of four teams of four
>people each for six months, where they (each team) will design the
>same problem using a different PDL, and implementing the problem in
>Ada. Depending upon the results of the first phase, there will be
>a second phase of the same length with two PDLs. If you are interested
>I would be happy to send you a copy of the plan I prepared for Larry,
>it is about 130 pages right now and so if you could send me your
>mailing address I will forward it to you. I am always looking for
>criticism/comments.
>
> Although I am soon to be leaving the company to work for Software
>Productivity Solutions, I can tell you a little about use of PDLs,
>especially Ada PDLs, at Harris. Of course, the Harris Ada PDL has
>been used the most on a variety of projects. Because it is a complex
>PDL supporting a very sophisticated methodology, it has not always
>been well received. In addition, we used the PDL/Ada from IBM
>on a project. No other Ada PDLs have been used at Harris, although
>Caine Farber Gordon PDL/81 has been used and there is talk about
>looking at their Ada style.
>
> I am very interested in the results of your survey since it
>relates to work I am and will be doing for Larry, and would appreciate
>your keeping me abreast of your findings. I am particularly interested
>in any comments you receive on structured English, and of course the
>explicit information I mentioned above (exceptions, requirements traceability,
>inter-unit dependnecies).
>
> The experiment is a competitively procured contract (RFP out
>now) expected to start up in January.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Cammie Donaldson
>305-242-5677
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mitre-bedford.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a001561;
> 9 Oct 85 13:41 EDT
>Date: Wednesday, 25 Sep 1985 09:13-EDT
>From: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
>Cc: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>In-reply-to: Your message of Tuesday, 24 Sep 1985 17:15-EDT.
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Thu, 10 Oct 85 10:45 CDT
>
> We have a small project going here at MITRE which is using David
>Luckham's ANNA annotation extensions to the Ada language as a Program
>Design Language. ANNA was described in the March issue of IEEE Software.
>We have been looking at how using a more formal Ada PDL affects what is
>presented at a PDR and a CDR, as well as how much better the final system
>looks. Currently we are in the middle of designing the system, we just had
>a PDR review.
> Christopher Byrnes
> The MITRE Corporation
> Burlington Road
> M. S. A180T
> Bedford, Mass. 01730
>
> cb@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA
> ...decvax!linus!bccvax!cb.UUCP
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
>
>Received: from mit-multics.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a016072;
> 15 Oct 85 18:03 EDT
>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 85 17:50 EDT
>From: Avery%mit-multics.arpa@CSNET-RELAY
>Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs
>To: Richard_Conn <conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY>
>In-Reply-To: Message of 24 Sep 85 17:15 EDT from Richard_Conn
>Message-ID: <851015215050.533981@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
>Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Wed, 16 Oct 85 07:44 CDT
>
>
>Rick,
>
> GTE Government Systems has an internal Ada Design Language which is
>used throughout the corporation. If you have any further questions or
>need any further information, please contact Charlene Hayden.
>
> Hayden -at MIT-MULTICS
>
>
>
>**** RESPONSE TO QUERY ****
>
> Texas Instruments is developing its own Ada PDL. TI intends to use
>this PDL internally and is considering marketing it, but no decision has been
>made yet. TI has also used the Byron Ada PDL of Intermetrics internally on
>a government contract.
>
> Rick Conn
>
>
> Contact Alan Woody, Phone 214-952-2136, DDN Mail
> WOODY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY, for questions
>
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-04 18:34 (none) RCONN
1985-12-06 1:02 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:32 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:46 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512041834.AA10551@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 10:27:45 PST
>Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:25:28-MST
>From: Rick Conn <RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>Subject: Sorry
>To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA
>cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>Message-ID: <12164447432.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
>
> I accidentally sent the WHOLE PDL survey file rather
>than just the foreword.
> Rick
>-------
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-05 6:09 (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:04 ` (none) info-ada
1985-12-06 1:37 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:47 ` info-ada
2 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512050609.AA24463@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 21:56:25 PST
>Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 21:54:48-PST
>Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7)
> id AA24127; Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST
>From: ihnp4!mgnetp!wnuxb!laj@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Message-Id: <8512050554.AA24127@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA24281; 4 Dec 85 23:35:10 CST (Wed)
>To: mgnetp!info-ada
>Subject: Re: (none)
>Newsgroups: net.lang.ada
>In-Reply-To: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL
>Cc:
>
> What is this garbage !!!
>
> And what is it doing on the net !!!
>
> Larry Johnson
> ihnp4!wnuxb!laj
>
>>*<info-ada>archive.current
>>\fradc-tops20
>>ada
>>\fhel-ace
>>blyskal
>>\fwisc-crys
>>pb
>>\fbrl-bmd
>>genesis
>>\fwisc-rsch
>>jerome
>>\fucla-cs
>>amiram
>>\fjpl-vlsi
>>august
>>larry
>>jplanderson
>>\fibm-sj
>>alpern
>>\foslo-vax
>>info-ada
>>\fnosc-f4
>>bboard
>>\fsu-sierra
>>bryan
>>haberler
>>rosenblum
>>pack
>>mendal
>>\fnrl-aic
>>bbd-info-ada
>>\fnosc
>>ccvax.jackie
>>elmer.jensen
>>hobler
>>ccvax.dukelow
>>jacoby
>>CCVAX.colborn
>>CCVAX.tokoro
>>CCVAX.hesser
>>CCVAX.johnd
>>sdcsvax!bill
>>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>>\fari-hq1
>>charlie
>>\fddn1
>>dca-pgs
>>navtelcom
>>\fucla-locus
>>ada-fans
>>\fsri-kl
>>denny
>>mercado
>>sarvela
>>BillW
>>Mathis
>>\fmitre-bedford
>>gte
>>gah
>>munck
>>mcc
>>Info-Ada
>>bcr
>>pjl
>>johnm
>>\fnosc-tecr
>>contr22
>>CONTR23
>>contr04
>>\fll-vlsi
>>glenn
>>\fdec-marlboro
>>kania
>>rehill
>>\foffice-2
>>kirk.tym
>>\fsri-unix
>>richard
>>\flll-mfe
>>info-ada%lll
>>COLBORN%SAV
>>\fsu-sushi
>>samuel
>>PACK
>>\flogicon
>>ada
>>\fcit-vax
>>engvax!info-ada
>>\faids-unix
>>info-ada
>>\frand-relay
>>info-ada.arizona
>>\fbrl
>>info-ada
>>\fred.rutgers.edu
>>info-ada-bboard
>>\fdrea-xx
>>info-ada
>>\famsaa
>>jer
>>\ftl-20b
>>info-ada
>>\fdecwrl
>>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>>seki%tkov60.dec
>>\foregon-grad
>>info-ada
>>\fdarcom-hq
>>ada
>>\fdenver
>>info-ada
>>\fford-wdl1
>>ada
>>\fgunter-adam
>>porter
>>DSDC-SDT2
>>\fhi-multics
>>cornhill
>>gailly.ada
>>stachour
>>vaughanw
>>kamrad.cst
>>hkberg.cscswtec
>>eachus.nmlsppt
>>hi-info-ada
>>\flanl
>>post-info-ada
>>\fusc-isi
>>isi-info-ada
>>DRUFFEL
>>GOODENOUGH
>>\fanl-mcs
>>dritz
>>\fusc-isid
>>inco
>>\fnbs-vms
>>kuhn
>>zelkowitz
>>\fmit-oz
>>egk
>>pao
>>\fsimtel20
>>rmathias
>>RCONN
>>\fNRL-CSS
>>info-ada
>>\fNYU
>>INFO_ADA
>>\fXEROX
>>"Info-Ada^.x"
>>\fbbn-clxx
>>mdean
>>\fRUTGERS
>>MCGRATH
>>\fS1-A
>>JMB
>>\fSU-AI
>>REP
>>DCL
>>\fsri-csl
>>bboard-info-ada
>>\fBerkeley
>>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>>\fMaryland
>>ada-bbd
>>\fRADC-MULTICS
>>Karlovic
>>Gilyeat
>>\fcornell
>>infoada
>>\fUSC-ECL
>>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>>\fUSC-ECLB
>>HFISCHER
>>\fUSC-ISIE
>>BERTAPELLE
>>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>>DKREBILL
>>SAC.8AFDPI
>>SAC.ADDA
>>\fUSC-ISIB
>>HOLG
>>\fsri-spam
>>trudy
>>\fUSC-ISIA
>>DEVCTR
>>\fBBNA
>>RSchaaf
>>\fsri-nic
>>info-ada-nic
>>\fUTAH-20
>>INFO-ADA
>>\fWASHINGTON
>>DMJ
>>Sloan
>>\fCISL
>>Info-ADA%pco
>>\fDCA-EMS
>>Cleaveland
>>\fwsmr01
>>hhamilto
>>\flll-tis-b
>>info-ada-news
>>\fECLB
>>BSCHAAR
>>eberard
>>\fcmu-cs-g
>>trk
>>\fharvard
>>info-ada-incoming
>>\fseismo
>>vrdxhq!info-ada
>>\fucbdali
>>yee
>>\feglin-vax
>>harbaughs
>>\fSRI-AI
>>GOHEEN
>>\fnscw-wo
>>jcavall
>>\fACC
>>BBOARD.ADA
>>\fnprdc
>>info-ada-nprdc
>>\fAmes-VMSB
>>welch
>>\fudel
>>dist-info-ada
>>\fmitre-gateway
>>anderson
>>\fedwards-2060
>>info-ada
>>\fpica-lca
>>kkramer
>>\fnswc-wo
>>cottrell
>>\fisia
>>mclaughlinjr
>>\ftopaz
>>princeton!siemens!emery
>>\fcmu-cs-pt
>>cmu-info-ada
>>\fwpafb-afita
>>rgross
>>lawlis
>>pnagarse
>>richard
>>\fUSC-ISIF
>>EBERARD
>>\f
>>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST
>>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST
>>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST
>>From: "Paul D. Stachour" <Stachour@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA
>>cc: "Edward V. Berard" <EBERARD@USC-ISIF.ARPA>
>>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW
>>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA>
>>
>> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing
>>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software
>>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are
>>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to
>>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in
>>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who
>>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable :o perform the
>>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities,
>>to now perform professionally.
>> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary
>>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices
>>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the
>>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here.
>>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly
>>impossible to do a professional job.} ]
>> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with
>>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976
>>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will
>>continue in an area that is growing far faster`than our poor ability to
>>eduate and train.
>> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada",
>>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software
>>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows
>>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt
>>regulation.
>> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't
>>know a good way of achieving same.
>> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of
>>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills
>>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability
>>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-03 4:24 (none) info-ada
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
1985-12-06 1:40 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 1:48 ` info-ada
1985-12-12 22:22 ` (none) info-ada
3 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-06 1:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512030424.AA00479@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>\fradc-tops20
>ada
>\fhel-ace
>blyskal
>\fwisc-crys
>pb
>\fbrl-bmd
>genesis
>\fwisc-rsch
>jerome
>\fucla-cs
>amiram
>\fjpl-vlsi
>august
>larry
>jplanderson
>\fibm-sj
>alpern
>\foslo-vax
>info-ada
>\fnosc-f4
>bboard
>\fsu-sierra
>bryan
>haberler
>rosenblum
>pack
>mendal
>\fnrl-aic
>bbd-info-ada
>\fnosc
>ccvax.jackie
>elmer.jensen
>hobler
>ccvax.dukelow
>jacoby
>CCVAX.colborn
>CCVAX.tokoro
>CCVAX.hesser
>CCVAX.johnd
>sdcsvax!bill
>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>\fari-hq1
>charlie
>\fddn1
>dca-pgs
>navtelcom
>\fucla-locus
>ada-fans
>\fsri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>\fmitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
>pjl
>johnm
>\fnosc-tecr
>contr22
>CONTR23
>contr04
>\fll-vlsi
>glenn
>\fdec-marlboro
>kania
>rehill
>\foffice-2
>kirk.tym
>\fsri-unix
>richard
>\flll-mfe
>info-ada%lll
>COLBORN%SAV
>\fsu-sushi
>samuel
>PACK
>\flogicon
>ada
>\fcit-vax
>engvax!info-ada
>\faids-unix
>info-ada
>\frand-relay
>info-ada.arizona
>\fbrl
>info-ada
>\fred.rutgers.edu
>info-ada-bboard
>\fdrea-xx
>info-ada
>\famsaa
>jer
>\ftl-20b
>info-ada
>\fdecwrl
>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>seki%tkov60.dec
>\foregon-grad
>info-ada
>\fdarcom-hq
>ada
>\fdenver
>info-ada
>\fford-wdl1
>ada
>\fgunter-adam
>porter
>DSDC-SDT2
>\fhi-multics
>cornhill
>gailly.ada
>stachour
>vaughanw
>kamrad.cst
>hkberg.cscswtec
>eachus.nmlsppt
>hi-info-ada
>\flanl
>post-info-ada
>\fusc-isi
>isi-info-ada
>DRUFFEL
>GOODENOUGH
>\fanl-mcs
>dritz
>\fusc-isid
>inco
>\fnbs-vms
>kuhn
>zelkowitz
>\fmit-oz
>egk
>pao
>\fsimtel20
>rmathias
>RCONN
>\fNRL-CSS
>info-ada
>\fNYU
>INFO_ADA
>\fXEROX
>"Info-Ada^.x"
>\fbbn-clxx
>mdean
>\fRUTGERS
>MCGRATH
>\fS1-A
>JMB
>\fSU-AI
>REP
>DCL
>\fsri-csl
>bboard-info-ada
>\fBerkeley
>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>\fMaryland
>ada-bbd
>\fRADC-MULTICS
>Karlovic
>Gilyeat
>\fcornell
>infoada
>\fUSC-ECL
>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>\fUSC-ECLB
>HFISCHER
>\fUSC-ISIE
>BERTAPELLE
>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>DKREBILL
>SAC.8AFDPI
>SAC.ADDA
>\fUSC-ISIB
>HOLG
>\fsri-spam
>trudy
>\fUSC-ISIA
>DEVCTR
>\fBBNA
>RSchaaf
>\fsri-nic
>info-ada-nic
>\fUTAH-20
>INFO-ADA
>\fWASHINGTON
>DMJ
>Sloan
>\fCISL
>Info-ADA%pco
>\fDCA-EMS
>Cleaveland
>\fwsmr01
>hhamilto
>\flll-tis-b
>info-ada-news
>\fECLB
>BSCHAAR
>eberard
>\fcmu-cs-g
>trk
>\fharvard
>info-ada-incoming
>\fseismo
>vrdxhq!info-ada
>\fucbdali
>yee
>\feglin-vax
>harbaughs
>\fSRI-AI
>GOHEEN
>\fnscw-wo
>jcavall
>\fACC
>BBOARD.ADA
>\fnprdc
>info-ada-nprdc
>\fAmes-VMSB
>welch
>\fudel
>dist-info-ada
>\fmitre-gateway
>anderson
>\fedwards-2060
>info-ada
>\fpica-lca
>kkramer
>\fnswc-wo
>cottrell
>\fisia
>mclaughlinjr
>\ftopaz
>princeton!siemens!emery
>\fcmu-cs-pt
>cmu-info-ada
>\fwpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>\f
>Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
>Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
>Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
>Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
> id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
>Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
>To: info-ada@isif.arpa
>Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
>
>As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
>glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
>included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
>notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
>please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
>info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
>
>One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
>Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
>will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
>your pointers appropriately.
>
>-- Karl --
>
>DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
>UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)???
1985-12-04 9:09 ` (none) ,
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
1985-12-06 1:45 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-06 5:04 ` Dick Dunn
3 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Dick Dunn @ 1985-12-06 5:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
> *<info-ada>archive.current
> ^Lradc-tops20
> ada
> ^Lhel-ace
> blyskal
> \fwisc-crys
> pb
> ^Lbrl-bmd
> genesis
And several hundred lines more--could someone who knows what this blather
is about (in whatever part of the netiverse it originates) maybe explain
it? It seems to be appearing in net.lang.ada in USENET--which is supposed
to be human-readable, but I'm not able to derive any information from it.
We've gotten at least half a dozen of these articles this week.
(If you want to send me email to explain it and call me a dumb**** for not
knowing, that's probably OK.)
--
Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-05 17:45 (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-08 21:08 ` Jay R. Ashworth
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Jay R. Ashworth @ 1985-12-08 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
In the past week, my site has gotten about 10 of these articles marked
Subject: (none) with contents which I cannot fathom, and may in fact do
something, but I certainly don't know what. The header (first line)
of the message body is something like
*<info-ada>archive.current
(Pardon the pause, but I wanted to look it up, to get it right.) These
messages make me curious, and also take up disk space. Any ideas, Guys?
Each message is somewhere between 200 and 500 lines long. Info appreciated.
--jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Proma Software jra@jc3b22.UUCP
Programmer/Analyst 9189 Park Blvd. (813) 399-1045
Boy Genius (:-) Seminole FL 33544 (So they tell me)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-06 0:49 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-10 11:32 ` info-ada
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-10 11:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF DISK SPACE
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1985-12-06 1:48 ` (none) info-ada
@ 1985-12-12 22:22 ` info-ada
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada @ 1985-12-12 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8512060148.AA15651@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>In article <8512030424.AA00479@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>>*<info-ada>archive.current
>>\fradc-tops20
>>ada
>>\fhel-ace
>>blyskal
>>\fwisc-crys
>>pb
>>\fbrl-bmd
>>genesis
>>\fwisc-rsch
>>jerome
>>\fucla-cs
>>amiram
>>\fjpl-vlsi
>>august
>>larry
>>jplanderson
>>\fibm-sj
>>alpern
>>\foslo-vax
>>info-ada
>>\fnosc-f4
>>bboard
>>\fsu-sierra
>>bryan
>>haberler
>>rosenblum
>>pack
>>mendal
>>\fnrl-aic
>>bbd-info-ada
>>\fnosc
>>ccvax.jackie
>>elmer.jensen
>>hobler
>>ccvax.dukelow
>>jacoby
>>CCVAX.colborn
>>CCVAX.tokoro
>>CCVAX.hesser
>>CCVAX.johnd
>>sdcsvax!bill
>>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
>>\fari-hq1
>>charlie
>>\fddn1
>>dca-pgs
>>navtelcom
>>\fucla-locus
>>ada-fans
>>\fsri-kl
>>denny
>>mercado
>>sarvela
>>BillW
>>Mathis
>>\fmitre-bedford
>>gte
>>gah
>>munck
>>mcc
>>Info-Ada
>>bcr
>>pjl
>>johnm
>>\fnosc-tecr
>>contr22
>>CONTR23
>>contr04
>>\fll-vlsi
>>glenn
>>\fdec-marlboro
>>kania
>>rehill
>>\foffice-2
>>kirk.tym
>>\fsri-unix
>>richard
>>\flll-mfe
>>info-ada%lll
>>COLBORN%SAV
>>\fsu-sushi
>>samuel
>>PACK
>>\flogicon
>>ada
>>\fcit-vax
>>engvax!info-ada
>>\faids-unix
>>info-ada
>>\frand-relay
>>info-ada.arizona
>>\fbrl
>>info-ada
>>\fred.rutgers.edu
>>info-ada-bboard
>>\fdrea-xx
>>info-ada
>>\famsaa
>>jer
>>\ftl-20b
>>info-ada
>>\fdecwrl
>>scherrer%gvaic3.dec
>>seki%tkov60.dec
>>\foregon-grad
>>info-ada
>>\fdarcom-hq
>>ada
>>\fdenver
>>info-ada
>>\fford-wdl1
>>ada
>>\fgunter-adam
>>porter
>>DSDC-SDT2
>>\fhi-multics
>>cornhill
>>gailly.ada
>>stachour
>>vaughanw
>>kamrad.cst
>>hkberg.cscswtec
>>eachus.nmlsppt
>>hi-info-ada
>>\flanl
>>post-info-ada
>>\fusc-isi
>>isi-info-ada
>>DRUFFEL
>>GOODENOUGH
>>\fanl-mcs
>>dritz
>>\fusc-isid
>>inco
>>\fnbs-vms
>>kuhn
>>zelkowitz
>>\fmit-oz
>>egk
>>pao
>>\fsimtel20
>>rmathias
>>RCONN
>>\fNRL-CSS
>>info-ada
>>\fNYU
>>INFO_ADA
>>\fXEROX
>>"Info-Ada^.x"
>>\fbbn-clxx
>>mdean
>>\fRUTGERS
>>MCGRATH
>>\fS1-A
>>JMB
>>\fSU-AI
>>REP
>>DCL
>>\fsri-csl
>>bboard-info-ada
>>\fBerkeley
>>rhc%UCBJADE.CC
>>trwrb!trwspp!hal
>>trwrb!trwspp!colbert
>>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden
>>\fMaryland
>>ada-bbd
>>\fRADC-MULTICS
>>Karlovic
>>Gilyeat
>>\fcornell
>>infoada
>>\fUSC-ECL
>>LOCAL-INFO-ADA
>>\fUSC-ECLB
>>HFISCHER
>>\fUSC-ISIE
>>BERTAPELLE
>>NSCHNEIDEWIND
>>DKREBILL
>>SAC.8AFDPI
>>SAC.ADDA
>>\fUSC-ISIB
>>HOLG
>>\fsri-spam
>>trudy
>>\fUSC-ISIA
>>DEVCTR
>>\fBBNA
>>RSchaaf
>>\fsri-nic
>>info-ada-nic
>>\fUTAH-20
>>INFO-ADA
>>\fWASHINGTON
>>DMJ
>>Sloan
>>\fCISL
>>Info-ADA%pco
>>\fDCA-EMS
>>Cleaveland
>>\fwsmr01
>>hhamilto
>>\flll-tis-b
>>info-ada-news
>>\fECLB
>>BSCHAAR
>>eberard
>>\fcmu-cs-g
>>trk
>>\fharvard
>>info-ada-incoming
>>\fseismo
>>vrdxhq!info-ada
>>\fucbdali
>>yee
>>\feglin-vax
>>harbaughs
>>\fSRI-AI
>>GOHEEN
>>\fnscw-wo
>>jcavall
>>\fACC
>>BBOARD.ADA
>>\fnprdc
>>info-ada-nprdc
>>\fAmes-VMSB
>>welch
>>\fudel
>>dist-info-ada
>>\fmitre-gateway
>>anderson
>>\fedwards-2060
>>info-ada
>>\fpica-lca
>>kkramer
>>\fnswc-wo
>>cottrell
>>\fisia
>>mclaughlinjr
>>\ftopaz
>>princeton!siemens!emery
>>\fcmu-cs-pt
>>cmu-info-ada
>>\fwpafb-afita
>>rgross
>>lawlis
>>pnagarse
>>richard
>>\f
>>Received: FROM SEISMO.CSS.GOV BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 20:07:45 PST
>>Return-Path: <vrdxhq!karl>
>>Received: from vrdxhq.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:54:09 EST
>>Received: by vrdxhq.VERDIX (4.30/Verdix.02)
>> id AA09886; Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 22:08:20 EST
>>From: vrdxhq!karl@seismo.CSS.GOV (Karl Nyberg)
>>Message-Id: <8512030308.AA09886@vrdxhq.VERDIX>
>>To: info-ada@isif.arpa
>>Subject: administrivia - mail hiccups and isif -> ada20 name change
>>
>>As would figure, the transition to ISIF has not been without a few
>>glitches. Systems people are aware of the strange headers (which
>>included all the addresses from the info-ada mailing list). If you
>>notice anything else that appears to be related to the mail system,
>>please send mail (with complete copies of the questionable mail) to
>>info-ada-request@ISIF and to action@ISIF. Thanks.
>>
>>One other change that will occur as soon as the Network Information
>>Center gets around to updating its tables across the DDN is that ISIF
>>will change its name to ADA20. Look for that to happen, and update
>>your pointers appropriately.
>>
>>-- Karl --
>>
>>DDN: nyberg@isif, nyberg@utexas-20, Nyberg@mit-multics
>>UUCP: ...!{rlgvax, seismo, trwatf, umcp-cs, verdix}!vrdxhq!karl
>
>
> Please cease this clutter !
> Larry Johnson
> ihnp4!cuae2!laj
Please cease this clutter !
Larry Johnson
ihnp4!cuae2!laj
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-02-03 19:07 GAUSTIN
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: GAUSTIN @ 1986-02-03 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-03-16 18:52 info-ada-request
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada-request @ 1986-03-16 18:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-04-08 14:54 Stephen.Hutchinson
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Stephen.Hutchinson @ 1986-04-08 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-06-05 12:15 info-ada-request
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada-request @ 1986-06-05 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-06-05 19:39 info-ada-request
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: info-ada-request @ 1986-06-05 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-09-22 16:36 "Pat Rogers, High Tech Lab"
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: "Pat Rogers, High Tech Lab" @ 1986-09-22 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
Dear Ada language-lawyers,
Here's a question:
Given the following,
package P is
type LP is limited private;
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return LP;
private
type LP is new Integer;
end P;
Within the body for P."+", care must be taken to avoid a recursive call to
P."+", via the following conversion:
package body P is
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return LP is
begin
return Integer(Left) = Integer(Right);
end "=";
end P;
Otherwise it will recursively call itself since there is a visible operator
"=" defined for two parameters of type LP, thus hiding the predefined
operator (see RM 7.4.2/5, last sentence). So, well enough.
Now the question: suppose that LP is actually an access type, rather than
derived from Integer. So,
package P is
type LP is limited private;
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return Boolean;
private
type LP is access Integer; -- or access whatever
end P;
In the body, the above approach cannot be used, since there is no
conversion or qualification type available. To wit,
package body P is
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return Boolean is
begin
if Left = null then ...
This is a recursive call to P."=" on my compiler (yes, validated).
One could simply do the following (my current approach),
begin
return Left.all = Right.all; -- null pointer dereference possible
exception
when Constraint_Error =>
return False;
end "=";
However, in some situations it may be desirable to check for the null
value rather than relying on Constraint_Error (which might be suppressed later
by another programmer, etc... ). Maybe it is just correct in some particular
application to have two objects of type LP be equal if they are both null.
In those cases, what can be done ?
Is the compiler correct ? I've not had time to check it on some others.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks !
Pat Rogers
High Tech Lab
University of Houston at Clear Lake
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-09-22 16:36 "Pat Rogers, High Tech Lab"
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: "Pat Rogers, High Tech Lab" @ 1986-09-22 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
Dear Ada language-lawyers,
Here's a question:
Given the following,
package P is
type LP is limited private;
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return LP;
private
type LP is new Integer;
end P;
Within the body for P."+", care must be taken to avoid a recursive call to
P."+", via the following conversion:
package body P is
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return LP is
begin
return Integer(Left) = Integer(Right);
end "=";
end P;
Otherwise it will recursively call itself since there is a visible operator
"=" defined for two parameters of type LP, thus hiding the predefined
operator (see RM 7.4.2/5, last sentence). So, well enough.
Now the question: suppose that LP is actually an access type, rather than
derived from Integer. So,
package P is
type LP is limited private;
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return Boolean;
private
type LP is access Integer; -- or access whatever
end P;
In the body, the above approach cannot be used, since there is no
conversion or qualification type available. To wit,
package body P is
function "="( Left, Right : LP ) return Boolean is
begin
if Left = null then ...
This is a recursive call to P."=" on my compiler (yes, validated).
One could simply do the following (my current approach),
begin
return Left.all = Right.all; -- null pointer dereference possible
exception
when Constraint_Error =>
return False;
end "=";
However, in some situations it may be desirable to check for the null
value rather than relying on Constraint_Error (which might be suppressed later
by another programmer, etc... ). Maybe it is just correct in some particular
application to have two objects of type LP be equal if they are both null.
In those cases, what can be done ?
Is the compiler correct ? I've not had time to check it on some others.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks !
Pat Rogers
High Tech Lab
University of Houston at Clear Lake
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1986-12-21 23:16 diby
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: diby @ 1986-12-21 23:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
I am a Ph. D. student at Case Western Reserve University, and
I am interested in any information on PDL/Ada. I would like
any one provide this type of information to send it to me
at the address diby!cwruecmp. I would very much appreciate your
help. I also wish to be a member of the info-ada group, and
I would appreciate it if any those who are in charge could add
me to the group. I also heard of the Ada info archive tapes and
would like to purchase them. Please let me know how I may be able
to do that.
Thank you very much.
...diby!cwruecmp
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-01-16 16:24 FRASER
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: FRASER @ 1987-01-16 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
Dear All,
Could any knowledgeable Ada users out there give me some feedback
(!ANY!) to the following question:
Q. Has an Ada program been written, designed or discussed that would
perform intertask communication over an Ethernet-based network with
a variety of computers running Ada ?.
Apologies if this issue has been discussed before-I'm new to the group.
Thanks in advance,
Fraser Dickin (FRASER at NOCMI on BITNET).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-03-14 1:22 CONTR47
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: CONTR47 @ 1987-03-14 1:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
BFleming
EMonteino
\fSRI-KL
Denny
denny
Mathis
\faerospace
Hauser
MJM
hauser
hogan
\fMITRE-BEDFORD
JohnM
info-ada
\fCSNET-RELAY
legrand%uhcl
spray%smu
everhart%arisia%rca.com
info-ada%Atc.alcoa.com
info-ada%sperry-csd
spray%smu
info-ada%ubc
matthews%wwu
8440425%wwu
hitech%uhcl
info-ada%okstate
trt.mcnc
info-ada%iowa
uci-info-ada.UCI
info-ada.ucf-cs
post-ada.unc
info-ada.GATech
info-ada.umass-coins
info-ada%ti-eg
net128%bostonu.bitnet
\fHI-MULTICS
Minear
cornhill
Kamrad
hi-info-ada
\fDOCKMASTER
ROWE
\fUW-Beaver
ssc-VAX!Adolph
\fUCSD.ARPA
telesoft!carolyn
\fWISCVM
TH1055%ESTEC.BITNET
\fTSCA
th
\fUMICH
TNM
\fECLA
Verne
\flll-icdc.arpa
infoada%llx.decnet
woodruff%nesmv1.decnet
friedman%anchor.decnet
wilson%anchor.decnet
\fwiscvm.wisc.edu
ga3347%siucvmb.bitnet
info-ada%finhutc.bitnet
mucm000%ecncdc.bitnet
u08722%uicvm.bitnet
192498CS%uno.bitnet
FRASER%NOCMI.bitnet
reidt%vtvax3.bitnet
xsna%ecncdc.bitnet
xsak%ecncdc.bitnet
89RBW%WILLIAMS.BITNET
4526P%NAVPGS.BITNET
JCJZ702%CALSTATE.BITNET
AOVS754%UTA3081.bitnet
eric%cernvm.bitnet
ADAINFO%HTIKHT5.BITNET
ESC1319%ESOC.BITNET
carnal%clsepf51.bitnet
sider001%umuc.bitnet
gilbert%yalevmx.bitnet
ken%orion.bitnet
todd%clargrad.bitnet
TPC862%ESTEC
wayne%ukcc.bitnet
mfeldman%gwuvm.bitnet
MU164131%WVNVAXD.bitnet
u012%CBEBDA3T.BITNET
jds2f%uottawa.bitnet
dxbsl%uottawa.bitnet
uni15c%dbnrhrz2.bitnet
silva%slacvm.bitnet
scott%ucf1vm.bitnet
wmortens%estec.bitnet
U06k%CBEBDA3T.bitnet
fisher%yktvmv
ebel%clsepf51.bitnet
jim%ucf1vm.bitnet
brad%umdb.bitnet
ada%wisdom.bitnet
adelsber@awiwuw11.bitnet
ada%searn.bitnet
\faerospace.arpa
aida
\fbfly-vax.bbn.com
fram
\fgtewis.arpa
cstacey
\fnosc.arpa
maziarz%trout
\fjpl-vlsi.arpa
blc
august
larry
\fnems.arpa
vitro
\frelay.cs.net
dbiy%case.csnet
diby%case.csnet
info-ada%ufl.edu
\fcsli.stanford.edu
mcgrath.mail
\fnwc-143b.arpa
coleman
pagerk
sefada
\faplvax.arpa
incoming-info-ada
\fseismo.css.gov
esosun!info-ada
vrdxhq!info-ada
\fntsc-74.arpa
ddn_info_ada
\fdecwrl.dec.com
lloyd%skylrk.dec
lionel%quark.DEC
scherrer%europe.dec
seki%tkov60.dec
\fangband.s1.gov
jmb
\fwestpoint.arpa
engle
\fmitre.arpa
hough
wedertz
\fbrl-spark.arpa
vannlb
\fnswc-wo.arpa
wdence
cmlee
\fdca-ems
sra
\fardec.arpa
sheng
\fcs.ucl.ac.uk
alan%leo.national-computing-centre.co.uk
\fge-crd
welty
blackje
dausch
schnoorjf
\fhawaii-emh
navdafph
\fsdcsvax.ucsd.edu
jack!info-ada
\fumd5.umd.edu
grebyn!karl
\facc
bboard.ada
\fads
info-ada
\fafit-ab.arpa
dlinski
\fai.ai.mit.edu
kfl
\fames-vmsb
welch
\famsaa
jer
\fandrew.cmu.edu
arpalists#info-ada
\fnosc.mil
elmer.jensen
hobler
dukelow
jacoby
tokoro
hesser
johnd
sdcsvax!bill
jackie
sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada
\fbbn-clxx
mdean
\fbbna
RSchaaf
\fbraggvax.arpa
devctr
\fbrl.arpa
info-ada
genesis
\fcit-vax
engvax!info-ada
\fclemson
tokar
\fcmu-cs-a
samuel.shipman
Ellis.Cohen
\fcmu-cs-g
trk
\fcrdec-vax3
tlschmid
\fdarcom-hq
ada
\fddn1
navtelcom
\fdrea-xx
info-ada
\feddie.mit.edu
info-ada-incoming%deep-thought
\fedn-vax
mankin
\fedwards-2060
info-ada
\fetl-ai
info-ada
\fford-wdl1
ada
\fgunter-adam
gunter-info-ada
dsdc-sdt2
\fgunter-adam.arpa
ccso-all
\fharvard.harvard.edu
info-ada-incoming
\fhawaii-emh.arpa
cfccs
\fhel-ace
blyskal
\fbco-Multics
Info-ADA%pco
\fibm.com
orgass
\flanl
post-info-ada
\flll-icdc
pearson%anchor.decnet
\fll-vlsi
glenn
\flogicon
ada
\fmaryland
ada-bbd
\fmc.lcs.mit.edu
foner-magazines
hh
egk%oz
mok%mit-vax
\fmentor.bbn.com
gkenley
\fnadc
cotter
czaplick
jusczak
koch
lee
pohle
prindle
roadarme
schimsky
sclin
schmiede
\fncsc.arpa
gruber
\fnosc-f4
bboard
\fnprdc
info-ada-nprdc
\fnrl-aic
bbd-info-ada
\fnrl-css
info-ada
\fnrl-radar
boyd
faurer
\fnswc-wo
asamuel
cottrell
\fntsc-74
adaisc
\fnyu
info_ada
\foffice-1.arpa
info-ada.mdc
\fornl-msr
nec
\foslo-vax
info-ada
\fradc-multics
Ahrens
\fradc-tops20
ada
\fred.rutgers.edu
info-ada-bboard
\frutgers
mcgrath
\fsandia-2
ceolson
jcrowe
\fscore.stanford.edu
billw
\fsierra.stanford.edu
neff
bryan
rosenblum
pack
mendal
tracz
\fsimtel20
hhamilton
rconn
\fskl-crc.arpa
adaskl
\fsri-ai
goheen
\fsri-csl
bboard-info-ada
\fsri-nic
info-ada-nic
\fsu-ai
rep
dcl-lists
\fsu-shasta
esl!klf
\ftl-20b
info-ada
\fucla-cs
amiram
\fucla-locus
ada-fans
\fucsd
crash!roberts
\fudel
dist-info-ada
\fwashington
sloan
\fwpafb-afita
rgross
lawlis
pnagarse
richard
\fxerox
"Info-Ada^.x"
\fusc-eclb
hac63cad
hfischer
\fusc-isi
isi-info-ada
goodenough
\fusc-isid
inco
\fusc-ecl
local-info-ada
\fusc-isib
holg
\fusc-isie
nschneidewind
sac.adda
\f
Received: FROM NOSC-TECR.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 13 Mar 87 16:24:05 PST
Date: Fri 13 Mar 87 15:58:23-PST
From: CONTR47@NOSC-TECR.ARPA
To: principals@ADA20.ISI.EDU, artewg-general@ADA20.ISI.EDU,
info-ada@ADA20.ISI.EDU
Subject: task creation order importance?
Do you know of any necessity to take account
of creation order when dispatching tasks
of equal priority. For instance if several
equal priority tasks are created at runtime
is there any advantage/necessity to activate
them in creation order and then
when some or all of them are waiting for the
cpu to dispatch them in the order they
were created.
I imagine that the LRM legal position is that
any program that depended on creation order
would be erroneous. Correct? In addition
I am asking from your experience with
real-time systems if you think that creation order
is important. Thanks for any comments you may have.
regards, sam harbaugh
---------------------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-05-27 3:03 jklemens
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: jklemens @ 1987-05-27 3:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello,
My name is John Klemens and I am currently attending
school at WPAFB (Air Force Institute of Technology). I
am doing research in the area of benchmark tests for Ada
compilers oriented toward flight control applications. I
will be attempting to run tests on a number of compilers
for the 1750A architectures.
I would like to know if there is anyone out there who
has done similar work. If so, I would like to get any
information that might help me in getting benchmarks to
run on the 1750A's.
Thanks,
John Klemens
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-05-29 4:57 postmaster
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: postmaster @ 1987-05-29 4:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
not sure why this ended up in a dead letter pile, but i'm forwarding
it on now.
postmaster@radc-lonex.arpa
From @RADC-MULTICS.ARPA,@ADA20.ISI.EDU:aida@aerospace.aero.org Thu May 28 20:06:03 1987
Received: by radc-lonex.arpa (5.51/1.14)
id AA00187; Thu, 28 May 87 20:05:57 EDT
Received: from ADA20.ISI.EDU by RADC-MULTICS.ARPA TCP; 28-May-1987 20:01:40-edt
Received: FROM AEROSPACE.AERO.ORG BY ADA20.ISI.EDU WITH TCP ; 28 May 87 14:00:44 PDT
Received: by aerospace.aero.org (5.54/6.0.GT)
id AA16667; Thu, 28 May 87 14:00:07 PDT
Posted-Date: Thu, 28 May 87 13:59:35 -0800
Message-Id: <8705282100.AA16667@aerospace.aero.org>
To: info-ada@ada20.isi.edu
Subject: mailing address change
Date: Thu, 28 May 87 13:59:35 -0800
From: aida@aerospace.aero.org
Status: RO
please change my mailing route from aida@aerospace.aero.org to
wagner@aerocibo.aero.org thank you much
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-06-04 16:21 seafac
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: seafac @ 1987-06-04 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
DEC Ada Problem Report
from: Mr. Gary Sivak (513) 255-3586
ASD/ENASF
wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio 45433-6503
There seems to be a problem with the way the VAX-hosted DEC-Ada
compiler V1.3-24 handles SHORT_INTEGER variables.
Explanation. In VAX Ada, the SHORT_INTEGER is defined as a 16-bit
two's complement number with the sign bit, in the left-most position,
set to 1 for negative values. For example, for 3-bit arithmetic we have:
NUMERIC_VALUE BIT_REPRESENTATION
-4 100
-3 101
-2 110
-1 111
0 000
1 001
2 010
3 011
The valid range of two's complement 3-bit numbers is thus -4 through +3.
Similarly, the range of 16-bit two's complement numbers is -32,768 through
+32,767.
Problem. One can store the minimum value -32,768 into a
SHORT_INTEGER variable with a GET instantiated for SHORT_INTEGER, but
you cannot do it Via an assignment statement. The exception
NUMERIC_ERROR is raised when you try. The minimal value an assignment
statement will accept is -32,767.
The following simple source code and test results demonstrate the problem:
with TEXT_IO; use TEXT_IO;
with SHORT_INTEGER_TEXT_IO; use SHORT_INTEGER_TEXT_IO;
procedure TEST_READ is
INPUT_VALUE : SHORT_INTEGER;
begin --TEST_READ
loop
PUT("Enter INPUT_VALUE. ");
GET(INPUT_VALUE);
NEW_LINE;
PUT(INPUT_VALUE);
NEW_LINE;
end loop;
end TEST_READ;
RUN TEST_READ
Enter INPUT_VALUE. 32767
32767
Enter INPUT_VALUE. -32767
-32767
Enter INPUT_VALUE. -32768
-32768
Enter INPUT_VALUE.
*INTERRUPT*
with TEXT_IO; use TEXT_IO;
with SHORT_INTEGER_TEXT_IO; use SHORT_INTEGER_TEXT_IO;
procedure TEST_ASSIGN is
INPUT_VALUE : SHORT_INTEGER;
begin --TEST_ASSIGN
INPUT_VALUE := -32768;
NEW_LINE;
PUT(INPUT_VALUE);
NEW_LINE;
end TEST_ASSIGN;
$ RUN TEST_ASSIGN
%ADA-I-NUMERIC_ERROR, NUMERIC_ERROR
%SYSTEM-F-INTDIV, arithmetic trap, integer divide by zero at PC=00000848,
PSL=03C000A6
%TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
0000D1D6 0000D1D6
----- above condition handler called with exception 00000484:
%SYSTEM-F-INTDIV, arithmetic trap, integer divide by zero at PC=00000848,
PSL=03C000A6
----- end of exception message
TEST_ASSIGN TEST_ASSIGN 7 00000012 00000848
ADA$ELAB_TEST_A ADA$ELAB_TEST_ASSIGN 00000009 00000609
000008D9 000008D9
0000CFD2 0000CFD2
ADA$ELAB_TEST_A ADA$ELAB_TEST_ASSIGN 0000001B 0000061B
000008B4 000008B4
if anyone knows why you can get but not assign, please let me know.
gary Sivak
------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-06-09 17:17 SARX
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: SARX @ 1987-06-09 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Ada "Birds of a Feather" Session, IEEE P1003 POSIX
Working Group Meeting
Anyone having knowedge or interest in the difficulties
associated with putting an Ada compiler on a UNIX OS is invited
to attend the Ada "Birds of a Feather" session at the IEEE P1003
POSIX working group meeting in Seattle, WA, 21-26 Jun 87. For
more information call Terry Fong, (703) 664-4979/5389 or send
message to SARX@ISEC-oa.arpa
CC: SADA --HCCVMMSS DAVE WIKENHEISER SAR3 --HCCVMMSS Marty Johnson
SAISA --HCCVMMSS CPT Glenn Hughes
**** END PROFS-NOTE FROM CPT(P) Terry Fong ****
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-08-25 16:58 LOUBOUTIN
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: LOUBOUTIN @ 1987-08-25 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
$@jan_sys:jsend INFO-ADA@ADA20.ISI.EDU 25-AUG-1987-17-54-41-87.TMP
Using CLI$DCL_PARSE of VAX/VMS
$exit!------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems using CLI$DCL_PARSE provided by VAX/VMS in an Ada program
==================================================================
I've been working with VAX/VMS version 4.6 operating system and the DEC
Ada compiler version 1.4. I've been trying to use, without much success,the
utility routine CLI$DCL_PARSE when I provide it with an input routine
written in Ada. Here are the listings of the compilation units making up a
sample Ada program that doesn't work.
The main program is
with COMMAND_TABLE;
with COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
with IO_ROUTINES;
with CONDITION_HANDLING;
with SYSTEM;
procedure CLI_BUG is
INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR: exception;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
procedure DCL_PARSE (DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS: in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
COMMAND_STRING : in STRING ;
PROMPT_STRING : in STRING ) is
STATUS : CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE;
procedure CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS : out
CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE;
COMMAND_STR : in STRING :=
STRING'NULL_PARAMETER;
TABLE : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PARAM_ROUT : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PROMPT_ROUT : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PROMPT_STR : in STRING :=
STRING'NULL_PARAMETER);
--+ OVERVIEW : For more information see CLI$DCL_PARSE routine in the
--+ utility routines manual
pragma INTERFACE (EXTERNAL, CLI_DCL_PARSE);
pragma IMPORT_VALUED_PROCEDURE (CLI_DCL_PARSE,
"CLI$DCL_PARSE",
MECHANISM => (VALUE,
DESCRIPTOR(A),
VALUE,
VALUE,
VALUE,
DESCRIPTOR(S)));
begin
if COMMAND_STRING = "" then
CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS => STATUS,
TABLE => DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STR => PROMPT_STRING,
PARAM_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS);
else
CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS => STATUS,
COMMAND_STR => COMMAND_STRING,
TABLE => DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STR => PROMPT_STRING,
PARAM_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS);
end if ;
if not CONDITION_HANDLING.SUCCESS(STATUS) then
CONDITION_HANDLING.SIGNAL(STATUS);
end if ;
end DCL_PARSE;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
procedure DISPATCH is
STATUS : CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE := 1;
CLI_INVROUT: constant CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE := 16#38912#;
procedure CLI_DISPATCH (STATUS : out CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ For more information see CLI$DISPATCH routine in the utility
--+ routines manual.
--+ STATUS:
--+ If a routine is successfully invoked, the routine status is
--+ the status returned by the action routine. Otherwise a staus of
--+ CLI$_INVROUT is returned. This condition value is found in R0.
--+ if a routine written in ADA is invoked the condition value returned
--+ will be 0. CONDITION_VALUE.SUCCESS(0) = false. Thus
--+ CONDITION_VALUE.MATCH_COND should be used.
pragma INTERFACE (EXTERNAL, CLI_DISPATCH);
pragma IMPORT_VALUED_PROCEDURE (CLI_DISPATCH,
"CLI$DISPATCH",
MECHANISM => (VALUE));
begin
CLI_DISPATCH(STATUS);
if CONDITION_HANDLING.MATCH_COND(
CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE(STATUS), CLI_INVROUT) = 1 then
raise INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR;
end if ;
end DISPATCH;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
begin
loop
DCL_PARSE(DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS => COMMAND_TABLE.COMMANDS'ADDRESS,
INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS => IO_ROUTINES.READ_ROUTINE'ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STRING => ">>",
COMMAND_STRING => "");
DISPATCH;
end loop;
end CLI_BUG;
================================================================================
The input routine called by CLI$DCL_PARSE is declared in
package IO_ROUTINES is
procedure READ_ROUTINE(GET_STR : out STRING;
PROMPT_STR: STRING;
OUT_LEN : out INTEGER);
pragma EXPORT_PROCEDURE(READ_ROUTINE);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ This routine will be called by CLI$DCL_PARSE to read a command line.
--+ The utility routinesmanual states that it should have the same three
--+ argument calling format as the run time library routine LIB$GET_INPUT.
end IO_ROUTINES;
with TEXT_IO;
package body IO_ROUTINES is
procedure READ_ROUTINE(GET_STR : out STRING;
PROMPT_STR: STRING;
OUT_LEN : out INTEGER) is
begin
TEXT_IO.PUT(PROMPT_STR); TEXT_IO.GET_LINE(GET_STR, OUT_LEN);
end READ_ROUTINE;
end IO_ROUTINES;
================================================================================
It is necessary to declare a package to interface the available
commands. This package is declared as
package COMMAND_TABLE is
procedure COMMANDS;
pragma INTERFACE(CDU, COMMANDS);
pragma IMPORT_PROCEDURE(COMMANDS,"COMMANDS");
end COMMAND_TABLE;
The commands are declared in a non Ada file. Let's suppose that
this file is called COMMAND_TABLE.CLD. It contains
MODULE COMMANDS
DEFINE VERB COMM1
ROUTINE COMM1
It must be compiled by the command
$ set command/obj command_table
This would create the file command_table.obj in the default directory.
It must be entered in the acs library by the command
$ acs copy foreign command_table command_table
================================================================================
The procedure called by the command COMM1 is declared in
package COMMAND_PROCEDURES is
procedure COMM1;
pragma EXPORT_PROCEDURE(COMM1);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ These procedures will be called when the commands COMM1 and COMM2
--+ are input.
end COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
with TEXT_IO;
package body COMMAND_PROCEDURES is
procedure COMM1 is
begin
TEXT_IO.PUT_LINE("I'm COMM1");
end COMM1;
end COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
================================================================================
Once all these compilation units have been compiled and linked, the
execution prompts
>>
If COMM1 is typed
>>COMM1
the following messages are output.
%NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000
%TRACE-W-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
7FF5F8FD 7FF5F8FD
00001215 00001215
CLI_BUG DCL_PARSE 45 000000A3 00000EF1
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 100 00000084 00001092
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000
%TRACE-W-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
CLI_BUG DCL_PARSE 59 00000176 00000FC4
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 100 00000084 00001092
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%CLI-E-INVROUT, invalid routine specified in command tables - check .CLD file
%TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
7FF613F0 7FF613F0
00001256 00001256
CLI_BUG DISPATCH 87 00000020 00000FE5
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 102 0000008C 0000109A
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%ADA-F-EXCEPTION, Exception INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR
-ADA-I-EXCRAIPRI, Exception raised prior to PC = 0000100D
%TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
0000DBD6 0000DBD6
----- above condition handler called with exception 0031800C:
%ADA-F-EXCEPTION, Exception INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR
-ADA-I-EXCRAIPRI, Exception raised prior to PC = 0000100D
----- end of exception message
000117DB 000117DB
CLI_BUG DISPATCH 90 00000048 0000100D
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 102 0000008C 0000109A
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
I had the same messages even when I used a different body for the
procedure READ_INPUT. Using the debugger I've noticed that CLI$DCL_PARSE
couldn't receive parameter GET_STR from READ_ROUTINE though this parameter
is in mode "out". I wasn't able to find the reason. I would be very
interested if anyone had any experience on the subject.
Thanks for any help,
Isak Maim
Swiss Federal
Institute of Technology
Lausanne,
-----------
Switzerland
tel: (21) 47 42 37
Email: MAIM@CLSEPF51 (EARN/BITNET)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-08-25 16:58 LOUBOUTIN
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: LOUBOUTIN @ 1987-08-25 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
$@jan_sys:jsend INFO-ADA@ADA20.ISI.EDU 25-AUG-1987-17-54-41-87.TMP
Using CLI$DCL_PARSE of VAX/VMS
$exit!------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems using CLI$DCL_PARSE provided by VAX/VMS in an Ada program
==================================================================
I've been working with VAX/VMS version 4.6 operating system and the DEC
Ada compiler version 1.4. I've been trying to use, without much success,the
utility routine CLI$DCL_PARSE when I provide it with an input routine
written in Ada. Here are the listings of the compilation units making up a
sample Ada program that doesn't work.
The main program is
with COMMAND_TABLE;
with COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
with IO_ROUTINES;
with CONDITION_HANDLING;
with SYSTEM;
procedure CLI_BUG is
INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR: exception;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
procedure DCL_PARSE (DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS: in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
COMMAND_STRING : in STRING ;
PROMPT_STRING : in STRING ) is
STATUS : CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE;
procedure CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS : out
CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE;
COMMAND_STR : in STRING :=
STRING'NULL_PARAMETER;
TABLE : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PARAM_ROUT : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PROMPT_ROUT : in SYSTEM.ADDRESS;
PROMPT_STR : in STRING :=
STRING'NULL_PARAMETER);
--+ OVERVIEW : For more information see CLI$DCL_PARSE routine in the
--+ utility routines manual
pragma INTERFACE (EXTERNAL, CLI_DCL_PARSE);
pragma IMPORT_VALUED_PROCEDURE (CLI_DCL_PARSE,
"CLI$DCL_PARSE",
MECHANISM => (VALUE,
DESCRIPTOR(A),
VALUE,
VALUE,
VALUE,
DESCRIPTOR(S)));
begin
if COMMAND_STRING = "" then
CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS => STATUS,
TABLE => DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STR => PROMPT_STRING,
PARAM_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS);
else
CLI_DCL_PARSE (STATUS => STATUS,
COMMAND_STR => COMMAND_STRING,
TABLE => DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STR => PROMPT_STRING,
PARAM_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS,
PROMPT_ROUT => INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS);
end if ;
if not CONDITION_HANDLING.SUCCESS(STATUS) then
CONDITION_HANDLING.SIGNAL(STATUS);
end if ;
end DCL_PARSE;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
procedure DISPATCH is
STATUS : CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE := 1;
CLI_INVROUT: constant CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE := 16#38912#;
procedure CLI_DISPATCH (STATUS : out CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ For more information see CLI$DISPATCH routine in the utility
--+ routines manual.
--+ STATUS:
--+ If a routine is successfully invoked, the routine status is
--+ the status returned by the action routine. Otherwise a staus of
--+ CLI$_INVROUT is returned. This condition value is found in R0.
--+ if a routine written in ADA is invoked the condition value returned
--+ will be 0. CONDITION_VALUE.SUCCESS(0) = false. Thus
--+ CONDITION_VALUE.MATCH_COND should be used.
pragma INTERFACE (EXTERNAL, CLI_DISPATCH);
pragma IMPORT_VALUED_PROCEDURE (CLI_DISPATCH,
"CLI$DISPATCH",
MECHANISM => (VALUE));
begin
CLI_DISPATCH(STATUS);
if CONDITION_HANDLING.MATCH_COND(
CONDITION_HANDLING.COND_VALUE_TYPE(STATUS), CLI_INVROUT) = 1 then
raise INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR;
end if ;
end DISPATCH;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
begin
loop
DCL_PARSE(DCL_TABLE_ADDRESS => COMMAND_TABLE.COMMANDS'ADDRESS,
INPUT_ROUTINE_ADDRESS => IO_ROUTINES.READ_ROUTINE'ADDRESS,
PROMPT_STRING => ">>",
COMMAND_STRING => "");
DISPATCH;
end loop;
end CLI_BUG;
================================================================================
The input routine called by CLI$DCL_PARSE is declared in
package IO_ROUTINES is
procedure READ_ROUTINE(GET_STR : out STRING;
PROMPT_STR: STRING;
OUT_LEN : out INTEGER);
pragma EXPORT_PROCEDURE(READ_ROUTINE);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ This routine will be called by CLI$DCL_PARSE to read a command line.
--+ The utility routinesmanual states that it should have the same three
--+ argument calling format as the run time library routine LIB$GET_INPUT.
end IO_ROUTINES;
with TEXT_IO;
package body IO_ROUTINES is
procedure READ_ROUTINE(GET_STR : out STRING;
PROMPT_STR: STRING;
OUT_LEN : out INTEGER) is
begin
TEXT_IO.PUT(PROMPT_STR); TEXT_IO.GET_LINE(GET_STR, OUT_LEN);
end READ_ROUTINE;
end IO_ROUTINES;
================================================================================
It is necessary to declare a package to interface the available
commands. This package is declared as
package COMMAND_TABLE is
procedure COMMANDS;
pragma INTERFACE(CDU, COMMANDS);
pragma IMPORT_PROCEDURE(COMMANDS,"COMMANDS");
end COMMAND_TABLE;
The commands are declared in a non Ada file. Let's suppose that
this file is called COMMAND_TABLE.CLD. It contains
MODULE COMMANDS
DEFINE VERB COMM1
ROUTINE COMM1
It must be compiled by the command
$ set command/obj command_table
This would create the file command_table.obj in the default directory.
It must be entered in the acs library by the command
$ acs copy foreign command_table command_table
================================================================================
The procedure called by the command COMM1 is declared in
package COMMAND_PROCEDURES is
procedure COMM1;
pragma EXPORT_PROCEDURE(COMM1);
--+ OVERVIEW:
--+ These procedures will be called when the commands COMM1 and COMM2
--+ are input.
end COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
with TEXT_IO;
package body COMMAND_PROCEDURES is
procedure COMM1 is
begin
TEXT_IO.PUT_LINE("I'm COMM1");
end COMM1;
end COMMAND_PROCEDURES;
================================================================================
Once all these compilation units have been compiled and linked, the
execution prompts
>>
If COMM1 is typed
>>COMM1
the following messages are output.
%NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000
%TRACE-W-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
7FF5F8FD 7FF5F8FD
00001215 00001215
CLI_BUG DCL_PARSE 45 000000A3 00000EF1
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 100 00000084 00001092
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000
%TRACE-W-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
CLI_BUG DCL_PARSE 59 00000176 00000FC4
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 100 00000084 00001092
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%CLI-E-INVROUT, invalid routine specified in command tables - check .CLD file
%TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
7FF613F0 7FF613F0
00001256 00001256
CLI_BUG DISPATCH 87 00000020 00000FE5
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 102 0000008C 0000109A
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
%ADA-F-EXCEPTION, Exception INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR
-ADA-I-EXCRAIPRI, Exception raised prior to PC = 0000100D
%TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
0000DBD6 0000DBD6
----- above condition handler called with exception 0031800C:
%ADA-F-EXCEPTION, Exception INVALID_ROUTINE_ERROR
-ADA-I-EXCRAIPRI, Exception raised prior to PC = 0000100D
----- end of exception message
000117DB 000117DB
CLI_BUG DISPATCH 90 00000048 0000100D
CLI_BUG CLI_BUG 102 0000008C 0000109A
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 00000009 00000809
000012EE 000012EE
0000D9D2 0000D9D2
ADA$ELAB_CLI_BU ADA$ELAB_CLI_BUG 0000001B 0000081B
000012C9 000012C9
I had the same messages even when I used a different body for the
procedure READ_INPUT. Using the debugger I've noticed that CLI$DCL_PARSE
couldn't receive parameter GET_STR from READ_ROUTINE though this parameter
is in mode "out". I wasn't able to find the reason. I would be very
interested if anyone had any experience on the subject.
Thanks for any help,
Isak Maim
Swiss Federal
Institute of Technology
Lausanne,
-----------
Switzerland
tel: (21) 47 42 37
Email: MAIM@CLSEPF51 (EARN/BITNET)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-08-28 15:31 LOUBOUTIN
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: LOUBOUTIN @ 1987-08-28 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
$@jan_sys:jsend INFO-ADA@ADA20.ISI.EDU 28-AUG-1987-16-27-49-42.TMP
Ada language binding for GKS.
$exit!------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reference for the Draft ANS is X3.124.3-198x. There is also
a Draft International Standard (ISO), with reference DIS 8651/3. Both
documents are almost identical. I think that you can get a paper copy
from Nederlands Normalisatieinstituut, Kalfjeslaan 2, P.O. Box 5059,
2600 GB Delft. We too would like to have a machine readable form of
the document. If you succeed in having one, please give us news.
Sylvain Louboutin
Swiss Federal
Institute of Technology
Lausanne,
-----------
Switzerland
Phone: (21) 47 27 37
Email: LOUBOUTIN@CLSEPF51 (EARN/BITNET)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-09-15 19:39 Alex Blakemore
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Alex Blakemore @ 1987-09-15 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
Paul Attermier at Sandia National Labs
wanted to know about using Ada with X windows.
You can pass a callback array easily in Ada,
assuming your compiler supports the most basic
features from Chapter 13 of the LRM. (Most do).
An example follows :
with system;
procedure main is
type call_back_arrays is array (1 .. 2) of system.address;
call_back_array : call_back_arrays;
procedure X_routine (call_back : system.address); -- passed as system.address
pragma interface (C, X_routine); -- due to Verdix limitation
procedure user_routine_1 is
begin ...
procedure user_routine_2 is
begin ...
begin
call_back_array (1) := user_routine_1'address;
call_back_array (2) := user_routine_2'address;
X_routine (call_back_array'address);
end main;
We've successfully used this technique to bind Ada programs
to our Apollo X substitutes. I don't believe this violates
the spirit of Ada, but like most Chapt 13 stuff, it should be
well isolated. What IS difficult in Ada is to call a routine
from an address known only at run time (ie. make a callback).
However, that doesn't appear quite as often and you can always
use a layer of C. Or maybe try some unchecked conversion and
generics with subprogram formal parameters ... ?
Alex Blakemore
Software Productivity Consortium
Reston, VA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1987-12-23 10:54 CARNAL
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: CARNAL @ 1987-12-23 10:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
$@jan_sys:jsend INFO-ADA@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU 23-DEC-1987-11-50-17-42.TMP
compilers on APOLLO
$exit!------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are looking for an Ada compiler on Apollo.
Ada Information Clearinghouse (sept 87) mentions two
compilers: Apollo (Verdix) and Alsys.
Any comments on one of them (and their tools) will be helpfull.
Please answer to me by e-mail. Thanks and regards.
Michel Carnal
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
CH-1015 Lausanne
Email: CARNAL@CLSEPF51 (Bitnet)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-03-07 15:16 amb
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: amb @ 1988-03-07 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
could you add me to the mailing list
ucbvax!clyde!wayback!amb
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-03-09 3:18 sdl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: sdl @ 1988-03-09 3:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
I tried to compile Ada binding for X windows from SAIC
on HP Ada compiler and ran into the problem:
330 for Character_Record use
<---
#1
337 Attributes at 3*Word_Size range 16..31;
--->
#1
#1: **IDE 2237 Implementation restriction : record representation clauses are
not supported.
HP Ada compiler does not compile record representation clauses in X_lib_.a.
This means that you cannot specify which bits corresponds to which fields.
This feature seems to be crucial to Ada/C (C in Xlib) interface.
The X11 binding came with the disclaimer saying the code compiled only on Sun
Alsys compiler. HP Ada is from Alsys, but it may be wimpier
(older version, probably v3.1) than Sun Alsys Ada (v3.2).
---Daniel Lee
---Inference Corporation
---ucbvax!trwrb!smpvax!sdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-03-12 2:48 sdl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: sdl @ 1988-03-12 2:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
1. HP Ada compiler
My previous message about compiling X11 binding on
HP Ada compiler had a wrong net address. If anyone
has experiences with HP Ada Compiler, I would like to know
about them.
2. Ada parser
We want to write a program that preprocesses our extended
Ada Syntax. This preprocessor may have to know the full
Ada syntax.
I am looking for YACC/LEX or equivalent written in Ada.
If anyone has any information, please let me know.
Alternatively, if there is a full Ada parser without
the action code, it will do the job, too.
3. Best buy for a small Ada project
We are in the process of purchasing Ada compiler for a
Sun, probably from Alsys, but what are the alternatives?
What are the pros and cons?
How about VAX Ada compilers for 785 and MicroVAX?
I am wondering if it is worth paying for multiple user
version on 785. We have two 785's and many workstations
(Sun, HP, MicroVAX, Apollo, etc.). We current have Ada compilers
only on HP and Symbolics.
The project will require 2-3 Ada programmers initially working
on the project and probably up to 5 in the future.
What is the best buy for our project?
=> Daniel Lee
=> Inference Corporation
=> (213)417-7997
=> ucbvax!trwrb!smpvax1!sdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-03-17 1:24 sdl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: sdl @ 1988-03-17 1:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
I am interested in a double precision floating point math
package. My HP Ada compiler supports only single precision.
Do you know of any portable package for double precision math?
Daniel Lee
Inference Corporation
5300 W. Century Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90045
(213)417-7997
ucbvax!trwrb!smpvax1!sdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-04-07 20:15 sdl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: sdl @ 1988-04-07 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
;In response to Fred Yu's inquiry, you might want to pass along the following
;information. Computer * Thought Corporation (in Plano TX) has been working
;on an Ada-based version of the S.1 Expert System tool, under contract to
;Teknowledge. This is a large, EMYCIN-style system currently available in a
;C-based version, and previously sold in a LISP-based version (which is no
;longer supported). This conversion effort has the goal of supporting the
;delivery of rule-based systems written using the S.1 Development System,
;without modification, on an all-Ada platform. The only changes that users
;would be expected to make would be that any user extensions written in C
;would (of course) need to be re-written in Ada.
;
;This project has been underway for some time, and has turned out to be more
;difficult than was originally anticipated. However, recently the Ada-based
;version has reached the level of being able to load and execute some
;existing knowledge bases. Not all features of the tool are fully
;operational at this time. Real-time issues have not been addressed.
What were the problems that made it more difficult than was originally
anticipated? Does anyone know?
Daniel Lee
ucbvax!trwrb!smpvax1!sdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-06-03 12:08 Greg Gicca
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Greg Gicca @ 1988-06-03 12:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
I am in the process of determining what Ada tutorials
are now available and to try and determine which may be the
best of those offered. I am mainly interested in tutorials
that run on either VAX/VMS or IBM PCs. What I would like to
know is first, what Ada on-line tutorial products current
exist? And then second does anyone have any experience in
using any of these tutorials. Off the top of my head I know
of three companies offering this type of Ada product,
AdaSoft, Alsys, and TeleSoft. First are there any other
products available for the VAX or PC? Next does anyone have
any comments on their experiences in using either one of the
three products listed or any other similar products? I
would welcome any replies to this message. You may contact
me directly via my address listed below, or just be replying
to this note directly. Thanks in advance.
Greg Gicca
Sanders Associates
Net Address: giccag@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu
---- end ----
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-09-16 9:51 TVOVERBE
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: TVOVERBE @ 1988-09-16 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Re: Deserately seeking UIS/Ada bindings
>Why doesn't DEC include such a package with it's UIS (or Ada) distribution?
>They do for FORTRAN, C, PL/1 (!), MACRO, BLISS, PASCAL -- WHY NOT ADA ?????????
Ada bindings are supplied with VMS Workstation Software V3.3.
Contact your DEC representative and get the update.
Ton van Overbeek
European Space Research and Technology Centre (ESTEC)
Control Systems Section
P.O.Box 299
2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands.
Phone: +31 1719 83041
Email: TVOVERBE%ESTEC.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (ARPA/INTERNET)
TVOVERBE@ESTEC (EARN/BITNET)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-10-20 18:40 sdl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: sdl @ 1988-10-20 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Survey of Ada compiler on the host and target machines
I am conducting a survey on the usage of Ada compilers on host machines
and target machines on DoD contracts. The result of this survey will
be used to formulate the marketing strategy of an Ada-based expert system
tool under development.
The following is a matrix that represents the most popular combinations
of host/target machines and Ada compilers and cross-compilers.
This is not a complete list, of course, but I think it is a good starting
point. If your development environment is not included, please send
me a mail. Include the description of your project if appropriate.
HOST ADA COMPILER TARGET ADA CROSS-COMPILER
===========================================================================
VAX/VMS DEC Ada 1750A TLD
VAX/VMS DEC Ada 1750A SDC(DEC)
VAX/VMS DEC Ada 680x0 Verdix
Sun/Unix Verdix 680x0 Verdix
PS/2/XT/AT/DOS Alsys 80x86 Alsys
Send replies to:
trwrb!smpvax1!sdl@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Daniel Lee
Inference Corporation
(213)417-7997
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-11-07 12:52 gita R. Rajan
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: gita R. Rajan @ 1988-11-07 12:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
I would like to know some information on using Ada has a software design
language. Are there any workshops available where they teach on this subject.
Gita
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1988-11-21 22:34 Mark Nelson
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Mark Nelson @ 1988-11-21 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Ada training course.
I had heard from someone that their exists an Ada training course
taught by a Richard Bolz. If anyone has heard info on this course.
(I'll take both the good and the bad, if any). Please reply to
me directly so that people can be truthfull and honest.
I hear that Harris is the sponsor on this one, but I'm not sure.
Thanks in advance.
____ _ ____
/ / / | / / /
/___ /__| / /
/ / | / /
/___/ / | / /____/
Mark A. Nelson |
Geophysics Division | {ucbvax!ucsd,uunet!seismo}!esosun!mark
Science Applications Int'l Corp. | esosun!mark@seismo.css.gov
San Diego, CA |
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-01-13 17:11 NCOHEN
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: NCOHEN @ 1989-01-13 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
TRI-ADA '89
CALL FOR PAPERS
Theme: Ada Technology in Context: Application, Development, and Deployment
Date: 23-26 October 1989
Location: D. H. Lawrence Convention Center, Pittsburgh, Pa
TRI-Ada '89 is a refereed conference. The following paragraphs outline the
objectives of the conference and serve as instructions to interested authors.
The second annual TRI-Ada conference will address fundamental principles and
important innovations in the design, definition, and implementation of
real-world applications using Ada. Papers emphasizing both theoretical and
practical aspects are solicited, although papers describing actual systems
using Ada are preferred. Papers must describe new ideas that have the
potential to improve the understanding, implementation, management and
acceptance of Ada and Ada support methodologies for practical applications.
The following topics are especially targeted for this conference:
- Pragmatic Experiences with - Software Build and Integra-
Ada tion Approaches
- Evaluating and Selecting - Portability Techniques and
Compilers and Toolsets Issues
- Overcoming Compiler and - Prototyping for Ada Ap-
Toolset Limitations plications
- Risk Reduction/Management - Business/Economic Issues
Strategies
- Post Deployment Software
- Requirements for Standard Support
Libraries
- Ada Policy and Impact on
- Metrics/Data Gathering for Procurement
Ada Applications
- System Reliability:
- Design Issues and Ap- Security and Fault Toler-
proaches ance
- Systems Engineering - CM and Version Control
- Hardware/Software Tradeoffs - Cost Estimation: FSED and
Life Cycle
- Testing Techniques
- Results from Education and
- Results from Software Reuse Training Efforts
Authors should submit 10 copies of a technical summary no later than 15 April
1989. The initial submission should NOT be a complete paper and should be
structured such that it can be rapidly evaluated by members of the program
committee. Submissions are limited to 10 pages, double spaced, and should
include a return mailing address and an electronic address if possible. The
total text should not exceed 3000 words. Papers will be judged on relevance,
clarity, correctness, originality, significance, and applicability to the
topics of the conference. It is important to include specific results,
sketches of their derivations, and comparison to previous work.
Authors will be notified of acceptance or rejection no later than 31 May
1989. Full versions of the accepted paper must be received in camera ready
form by 1 August 1989. Authors of accepted papers will be expected to sign a
copyright release form. Proceedings will be distributed at the symposium,
and will subsequently be available from the ACM.
Send technical summaries to :
TRI-Ada '89 papers
c/o Tom Probert
Encore Computer Corporation
257 Cedar Hill Street
Marlborough, Ma 01752-3089
Conference Co-Chairs:
- John Foreman, Software En- - Major Chuck Engle, US Army
gineering Institute (SEI) and SEI
Program committee members are:
- Tom Probert, Encore Com- - Tricia Oberndorf, Naval Air
puter Corporation (Chair) Development Center
- Norm Cohen, IBM (Chair) - Don O'Neill, Software Engi-
neering Institute
- Captain Rebecca Abraham,
USAF - Erhard Ploedereder, Tartan
Laboratories
- Joan Bebb, TRW
- William Scherlis, Defense
- Mark Gerhardt, ESL Advanced Research Projects
Agency
- Lt Col Rick Gross, USAF
- Diane C. P. Smith, Xerox
- Charles ("Bud") Hammons,
Texas Instruments - Dudrey Smith, Smith In-
dustries
- Tim Harrison, Software
Productivity Consortium - Tucker Taft, Intermetrics
- Major Robert Lyons, Jr, - Nelson Weiderman, Software
USAF Engineering Institute
- Geoff Mendal, Stanford Uni-
versity
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-02-16 17:05 Richard.S.D'Ippolito
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Richard.S.D'Ippolito @ 1989-02-16 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: info-ada-request@AJPO SEI CMU EDU
cc:
Subject: Software Fantasyland
--------
In Volume 89 #50, Marc Balcer asks:
1. How much re-educating of DoD software enginners is necessary
BEFORE teaching Ada? In other words, should we be teaching
software engineering fundamentals first? What's the most
effective way to do this?
The first thing that should be taught is engineering fundamentals. The
folks you call generic software engineers are not really engineers in the
traditional sense, and assuming the title does not make them so.
Without the principles of engineering, there is no engineering. Knowing a
language is not enough -- being able to name all of the nuts, bolts, cables,
and beams and having a good knowledge of how to assemble them still does not
make us qualified bridge designers.
We have to see Ada as just the raw material with which to implement a
solution. Having great facility to manipulate and fashion the material only
makes us good bridge builders. Until the functions of engineering design
and implementation are properly separated, we will always be in the same
mess -- expecting better designs from better materials and tools.
Richard S. D'Ippolito
rsd@sei.cmu.edu
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-02-24 0:46 Marie T. Minogue
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Marie T. Minogue @ 1989-02-24 0:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
Federal Procurement Under the Bush Administration
The Bay Area SIGAda is sponsoring a dinner presentation on
Tuesday February 28. The topic is "Federal Procurement
Under the Bush Administration". The Speaker is Walter
Petit, a San Francisco lawyer who specializes in Government
Contracts.
The abstract is as follows:
The talk will draw from the speaker's experiences in
negotiating contracts with the Government and include some
insights on the trends in the procurement process. It will
cover three major areas:
1. Political reality regarding defense budget
accountability of government contractors and the
export of USA technology to foreign countries.
2. Procurement reality regarding increased competition
and trends toward further break out in "leader-
follower" contracts, cost sharing, consortiums and
etc.
3. New and expanded procurement techniques such as
increased use of commercial products, alternate
streamlined proposal and others.
The dinner will be held in conjunction with the Joint
AdaJUG/SIGAda meeting at the Doubletree Inn in Santa Clara
on Great America Parkway. It will start at 6:30 with a
coctail hour. The cost is $25 dollars with a menu choice of
chicken, sirlion or vegetarian. Anyone interested in
registering should call Marie Minogue as soon as possible at
(408) 473-7671 extension 37671.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-03-06 14:49 Javier Romanach / GMV
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Javier Romanach / GMV @ 1989-03-06 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello,
In our company we are developing a system that will use X and Ada. Somebody
suggested I should write to this address in order to get information about
existing bindings between them. Is that right?
Any opinons, suggestions and bits of information are wellcome.
Javier Romanach Ph. +34 1 234 30 04
Grupo de Mecanica del Vuelo, S.A. (GMV) Fax +34 1 233 32 50
Cristobal Bordiu, 35 Telex 48487 GMEV E
E-28003 MADRID jromanach@gmv.es
SPAIN mcvax!gmv.es!jromanach@uunet.uu.net
uunet!mcvax!gmv.es!jromanach
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-03-06 19:20 TSIGLER
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: TSIGLER @ 1989-03-06 19:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello ADA users.
I would like to learn about tasks sharing global data (critical sections).
If you have any information please send me a note.
Andrey.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-03-08 13:59 Norman Cohen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Norman Cohen @ 1989-03-08 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Implicit conversion?
Ref: INFO-ADA Digest Volume 89 Issue 72 (Wed, Mar 8, 1989) Item #4
(by Steven Holtsberg)
In the example
with SYSTEM; use SYSTEM;
procedure example is
x: tiny_integer;
begin
x:= MAX_INT - MAX_INT;
end example;
the two occurrences of the named number MAX_INT (which are "convertible
universal operands" as defined in RM 4.6(15)) are each converted to type
Tiny_Integer. The "-" operator thus denotes the subtraction operation
for type Tiny_Integer.
Steven Holtsberg may have read too much into the rule (from RM 4.6(15)),
"An implicit conversion of a convertible universal operand is applied
if and only if the innermost complete context (see 8.7) determines
a unique (numeric) target type for the implicit conversion...." This
determination can be indirect: The innermost complete context determines
that the righthand side of the assignment must be of type Tiny_Integer;
since the only visible "-" operator with a result of type Tiny_Integer is
the "-" with operands of that type, the two operands must each be of type
Tiny_Integer; thus the conversion takes place. In contrast, the complete
context
Integer_Is_Symmetric: Boolean := Min_Int = -Max_Int;
does not determine a unique target type for a conversion. Furthermore,
there is a "legal interpretation of this context without ... conversion"
(RM 4.6(15) again), so no conversion takes place. The unary "-" with
an operand and result of type universal_integer is applied to Max_Int,
and the "=" operator with operands of type universal_integer and a
result of type Boolean is then applied to Min_Int and the result of the
negation.
Norman Cohen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-03-09 22:07 Norman Cohen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Norman Cohen @ 1989-03-09 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: More on implicit conversion
Ref: INFO-ADA Digest Volume 89 Issue 72 (Wed, Mar 8, 1989) Item #4
(by Steven Holtsberg)
INFO-ADA Digest Volume 89 Issue 75 (Thu, Mar 9, 1989) Item #5
(by Vladimir Ivanovic)
INFO-ADA Digest Volume 89 Issue 75 (Thu, Mar 9, 1989) Item #8
(by me)
It has been pointed out to me that I missed Steven Holtsberg's point:
MAX_INT is not in the range of type Tiny_Integer, so if MAX_INT were
converted to Tiny_Integer as required by the rules in RM 4.6(15), one
would expect Numeric_Error or Constraint_Error to be raised.
RM paragraph 11.6(6) provides a loophole for the exception not to be
raised. Formally, the compiler is performing the two Tiny_Integer
conversions and the Tiny_Integer subtraction using a type with a wider
range than Tiny_Integer. In reality, of course, the compiler is probably
computing the zero difference at compile time, but that's none of our
business. See the note in RM 11.6(9) for another example of this
loophole.
Apparently the Verdix compiler used by Steven Holtsberg exploits this
loophole while the DEC v1.5 compiler used by Vladimir Ivanovic does not.
Neither compiler is wrong.
Norman Cohen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-04-03 13:23 Norman Cohen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Norman Cohen @ 1989-04-03 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
Subject: Concise answer to Geoff Mendal, supporting his view
Ref: Generic Package Names
INFO-ADA Digest Volume 89 Issue 96 (Sat, Apr 1, 1989) Item #2
Geoff:
12.3(6) too.
Norman Cohen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-04-14 11:43 jrovert
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: jrovert @ 1989-04-14 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Sorry about that Karl, I did mean to send it to info-ada.
I'll forward it today.
Thanks for the info.
John F. Rovert
jrovert@relay.nswc.navy.mil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1989-09-02 22:13 cdonalds
1989-09-04 1:43 ` (none) Richard O'Keefe
0 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: cdonalds @ 1989-09-02 22:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
Please note that the abstract deadline for the Ada Europe Conference
1990 has been extended to October 6th 1989.
CALL FOR PAPERS
__________________________________________________________________
Ada-Europe
Dublin 1990
CONFERENCE & EXHIBITION
Ada : Experiences and Prospects
12-14 June 1990 Dublin, Ireland
The year 1990 marks the start of a new decade and the end of
one in which the Ada language came of age, in terms of use
and acceptability. What better time to reflect on the
experiences of Ada users throughout that time and to look to
the future in the light of that experience.
Also, this is a crucial phase of Ada's life in which the
standard is being evaluated and changes to it are being
proposed through the 9X process, the outcome of which will
determine the shape of Ada through to the next century. This
conference will fall mid-way through the 9X programme, and will
be a good forum for discussion of topical issues.
Papers are sought describing, in particular, experiences
with using Ada within projects throughout their life cycle, so
that the impact of Ada can be assessed. Of special interest
is feedback about the maintenance and enhancement phases of Ada
projects and products. Does Ada stand up to its claims,
especially with respect to quality? Papers should address
what was predicted, what actually happened and what should be
done in future.
The main theme of the conference is the impact of technical
and management issues in the software engineering economics of
Ada, as well as technology transfer and training.
Authors are invited to prepare an extended abstract (4-6 pages)
in English, including the paper title, authors' names,
affiliations, addresses (including electronic addresses), and
phone numbers and forward ten copies to the Programme Chairman:
Barry Lynch,
Generics (Software) Ltd.,
Clonard House,
Sandyford Road,
Dublin 16, Ireland.
Phone: +353-1-954012, Fax: +353-1-954011
Telex: 38019 MBOX EI, Email: lynch@genrix.ie
Important Dates: Oct 6th 1989, Extended Abstract Due
Dec 15th 1989, Notification of Acceptance
Jan 31st 1990, Completed Papers Due
__________________________________________________________________
Sponsored by Ada-Europe
with the assistance of the Commission of the European Communities
and the cooperation of ACM SIGAda (ACM approval pending)
For any further information regarding the Conference or
Exhibition please contact the Conference Secretariat: Ada-
Europe 1990, Northumberland House, 44 Northumberland Road,
Ballsbridge, Dublin 4, Ireland. Phone +353-1-688244, Fax +353-1-
686769
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1989-09-02 22:13 (none) cdonalds
@ 1989-09-04 1:43 ` Richard O'Keefe
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Richard O'Keefe @ 1989-09-04 1:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <8909022213.AA06286@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu>, cdonalds@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU writes:
: The year 1990 marks the start of a new decade and the end of
: one in which the Ada language came of age, in terms of use
: and acceptability. What better time to reflect on the
: experiences of Ada users throughout that time and to look to
: the future in the light of that experience.
Ahem. 1990 is the LAST year of the decade 1981-1990.
Just as 2000 will be the LAST year of this century and millenium,
not the first year of the next.
If ADA.people get such blatant off-by-one errors in their specs,
can their code be any better? [ponderous humour]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1990-02-14 16:43 Dave Williamson
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Dave Williamson @ 1990-02-14 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Our project is in the process of selecting a compiler for an AT&T 6386/25
system running the 386/ix O/S (essentially System V.3.2) from Interactive
Systems. We have our list of possible compilers together, and have made a
tentative choice. However, I would appreciate feedback from anyone who has
developed (or is developing) on this platform, about good and bad features of
the compiler they are using (in particular the toolset, run-time
performance/limitations, tasking issues/limitations, pragma interface issues).
Alternatively, if you've heard something about 386/Unix compilers that would
be useful, please send them along. Please email feedback directly. If replies
are sufficient, I will post a summary to the net.
Dave Williamson email : williams@crc.skl.dnd.ca
Software Kinetics Ltd.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1990-05-07 18:37 Ken McCook;SCDQ;
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Ken McCook;SCDQ; @ 1990-05-07 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
Does anyone out there have any experience using
Ada as a viable software development tool for MIS
applications ?
Involving data/file accessing and manipulation ?
Have you used Ada to write object-oriented applications ?
Can Ada be used to write GUI/WIMP interfaces ?
Will Ada support client/server type processing ?
Ever used Ada to develop a rapid and/or non-rapid prototype ?
Anyone familiar with SAGE and THOR tools for Alsys PC Ada ?
Thanks much in advance,
Ken McCook
Email => kmccook@wrdis01.af.mil
Commercial => (404) 926-7709
Autovon => 468-7709
Address => Warner Robins Air Logistics Center
Communications/Computer Systems Directorate
Software Development Branch /SCDQ
Building 228
Robins AFB, GA USA 31098-5990
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1990-08-08 21:12 Jose_Duarte
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Jose_Duarte @ 1990-08-08 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello Folks,
I am currently writing a routine in Ada under Berkeley Unix 4.2
using the Verdix ADA compiler 6.0. I am using the standard Text_IO
routines GET and PUT to implement a function to save a tree in text
format. I save the tree using a depth-first algorithm, and this means
that I have to call the Save_Tree function recursively...I am using a
Sun 4 machine to work on, and I get a BUS ERROR once in a while...No
exceptions are raised...just a BUS ERROR...It doesn't happen always,
and my routine doesn't "bite the dust" in the same place when I do
get a BUS ERROR...My question is: Has anyone else had the same problem ?
I know this is too general a question, but I just thought I'd ask...
Jose Duarte.
------------------------------------------------------
CODE:
with Lines,
Text_IO,
Tree_Generation,
File_Manager,
Command_Line,
CTA_System,
Tables;
package body Tree_Traversal is
------------------------------------------------------
-- procedure Print_Tree_2
--
-- This procedure Prints out the Classification Tree
-- using a depth-first recursive algorithm. The User's
-- Manual displays a Tree and a sample tree ouput. If
-- The Indentation_Level is too long, then the output
-- will be messed up. Tough Luck !!!
--
-- There are three cases possible when Printing the tree:
--
-- 1. The Node_Ptr parameter is null.
-- The words "null node" are ouput
--
-- 2. The Node_Ptr parameter points to a terminal node:
-- The Node classification is determined from the
-- node record field "Classification", and then the
-- symbols <+> or <-> or <*> are output.
--
-- 3. The Node_Ptr points to a NONTERMINAL record node:
-- The Metric Name is extracted from the Metrics
-- Table according to the "Metric_Code" field in the
-- record. Next, the Arc_List pointer is initialized
-- to point to the first arc. A "while" loop calls
-- the Print_Tree procedure recursively for each arc
-- in the arcs_list with a new Indentation_Level.
--
------------------------------------------------------
procedure Print_Tree_2(F : Text_IO.File_Type;
Node_Ptr : Tree_Generation.Tree_Node_Pointer;
Indentation_Level: Natural ) is
use File_Manager,CTA_System,Tree_Generation,Text_IO;
Arc_List : Tree_Arc_Pointer;
Metric_Type: Tables.Value_Type;
Metric_Code: POSITIVE;
Temp_Str : Lines.Normal_Line;
Int1,Int2 : INTEGER;
F1,F2 : FLOAT;
begin
New_Line(F);
-- indent the proper number of columns:
For X in NATURAL range 1..Indentation_Level loop
Put(F,'|');
end loop;
-- case 1: The pointer is a null pointer
if (Node_Ptr = null) then
Put(F,"<null node>");
return;
end if;
-- case 2: The pointer points to a terminal node
if (Is_Terminal(Node_Ptr)) then
case Return_Classification(Node_Ptr) is
when CTA_System.P => Put(F,"<+>");
when CTA_System.N => Put(F,"<->");
when CTA_System.Z => Put(F,"<Z>");
when CTA_System.M => Put(F,"<M>");
when CTA_System.D => Put(F,"<D>");
when CTA_System.U => Put(F,"<U>");
end case;
-- New_Line(F);
return;
end if;
-- case 3: a NONTERMINAL
-- it's not null and not a terminal
-- i.e. it's a nonterminal:
-- put out Metric Name - a conversion is required:
Put(F,Lines.IMAGE(Get_Metric_Name(Return_Metric_Code(Node_Ptr))));
-- New_Line(F);
-- start off with the first child node:
Arc_List := Get_Arc_List_Pointer(Node_Ptr);
Metric_Type := Get_Metric_Type(Return_Metric_Code(Node_Ptr));
while (Arc_List /= null) loop
Get_Range_Values(Arc_List,Temp_Str,Int1,Int2,F1,F2);
if NOT (Is_Terminal(Get_Child_Node_From_Arc(Arc_List))) then
New_Line(F);
For X in NATURAL range 1..Indentation_Level+4 loop
Put(F,' ');
end loop;
case Metric_Type is
when Tables.CHAR =>
Put(F," ( " & Lines.IMAGE(Temp_Str) & " ) ");
when Tables.INT =>
Put(F, " ( ");
Put(F, INTEGER'IMAGE(Int1));
Put(F," , ");
Put(F, INTEGER'IMAGE(Int2));
Put(F, " ) ");
when Tables.REAL =>
Put(F, " ( ");
CTA_System.CTA_Floats.Put(F,F1,1,3,3);
Put(F," , ");
CTA_System.CTA_Floats.Put(F, F2,1,3,3);
Put(F, " ) ");
end case;
end if;
Print_Tree_2(F,Get_Child_Node_From_Arc(Arc_List), Indentation_Level+5);
if (Is_Terminal(Get_Child_Node_From_Arc(Arc_List))) then
case Metric_Type is
when Tables.CHAR =>
Put(F," ( " & Lines.IMAGE(Temp_Str) & " ) ");
when Tables.INT =>
Put(F, " ( ");
Put(F, INTEGER'IMAGE(Int1));
Put(F," , ");
Put(F, INTEGER'IMAGE(Int2));
Put(F, " ) ");
when Tables.REAL =>
Put(F, " ( ");
CTA_System.CTA_Floats.Put(F,F1,1,3,3);
Put(F," , ");
CTA_System.CTA_Floats.Put(F, F2,1,3,3);
Put(F, " ) ");
end case;
-- New_Line(F);
end if;
Arc_List := Next_Arc(Arc_List);
end loop;
end Print_Tree_2;
------------------------------------------------------
procedure Print_Tree(Node_Ptr : Tree_Generation.Tree_Node_Pointer;
Indentation_Level: Natural := 0) is
use Text_IO;
F: File_Type;
begin
-- Get the output filename from the command-line:
Lines.Assign(CTA_System.Filename,Command_Line.argv(2).s);
CREATE(F,Out_File,Lines.IMAGE(CTA_System.Filename));
-- Save the tree to a file:
Print_Tree_2(F,Node_Ptr,Indentation_Level);
CLOSE(F);
end;
end Tree_Traversal;
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1990-09-20 18:21 "John P. Solomond, Director, AJPO"
1990-09-24 8:52 ` (none) Richard A. O'Keefe
0 siblings, 1 reply; 109+ messages in thread
From: "John P. Solomond, Director, AJPO" @ 1990-09-20 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
------- Blind-Carbon-Copy
To: action
Subject:
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 90 14:21:44 EDT
From: "John P. Solomond, Director, AJPO" <solomond>
TO: AJPO Host Users
FROM: John P. Solomond, Director, Ada Joint Program Office
SUBJECT: AJPO SOLICITING COMMENTS ON ADA STYLE GUIDE HANDBOOK
DATE: 20 September 1990
The Ada Joint Program Office (AJPO) is soliciting comments from the
Ada community on the draft Ada Style Guide Handbook, MIL-HDBK-1804.
An electronic copy of the handbooks is on this system in
usr0/users/ftp/public/adastyle. The ascii version of the file is
called hdbk1804; a compressed version is available in the same
subdirectory under the name hdbk1804.tar.Z.
If you are interested in providing input, please forward your
comments to the "adastyle" user account no later than November 20,
1990.
A discussion of the comments received is planned for an evening
session at TRI-Ada. More information on the time/date/location
will follow.
For more information, contact Susan Carlson at the Ada Information
Clearinghouse (703) 685-1477 or send e-mail to
carlsons@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu.
John P. Solomond
Director, Ada Joint Program Office
------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
1990-09-20 18:21 (none) "John P. Solomond, Director, AJPO"
@ 1990-09-24 8:52 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1990-09-24 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <9009201824.AA16490@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu>, solomond@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU ("John P. Solomond, Director, AJPO") writes:
> The Ada Joint Program Office (AJPO) is soliciting comments from the
> Ada community on the draft Ada Style Guide Handbook, MIL-HDBK-1804.
They could start by getting their English straight.
It's "reserveD word", not "reserve word". "reserve word" occurs too
many times in the text to be accidental.
They could also clarify references to "_the_ ISO character set"; do they
mean 646? 8859 (if so, which one? Western Europen? Cyrillic?)? 10646?
--
Heuer's Law: Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-01-10 16:38 GS-09 Ken McCook;SCDD
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: GS-09 Ken McCook;SCDD @ 1991-01-10 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
Does anyone have any suggestions on possible solutions to the following?
I'm displaying a list of the key fields on the screen. By moving the
highlight bar to an occurance and pressing a function key the user
denotes the record(s) selected. The user can select one or more records.
When he's finished he presses another function key to signal he's finished.
1 -- I don't know beforehand how many he will select.
2 -- I'm only storing the index to each record selected so I thought
about putting the numbers into array.
3 -- I won't know until the user is done how many records he's selected, so I
won't know how big of an index I'll need for the array until he's done
choosing.
4 -- Once put into an array I need to "for" loop thru them "n" times.
("n" being equal to the total number of records selected).
Thanks for any suggestions. Please email any suggestions directly to me.
I'll summarize for the net if there's any interest.
Ken McCook
Computer Programmer
Warner Robins Air Logistics Center
Software Development Branch
(912) 926-3224
kmccook@wrdis01.af.mil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-02-28 17:50 Giorgio del rio
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Giorgio del rio @ 1991-02-28 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
SUBSCRIBE INFO-ADA Piergiorgio Delrio
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-03-26 20:38 Eric E. Mays 52202
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Eric E. Mays 52202 @ 1991-03-26 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
Dave,
Referencing your posted message on the 22 Mar 91.
-- Date: 22 Mar 91 14:51:41 GMT
-- From: esseye!scholten@uunet.uu.net (David Scholten)
-- Subject: Cross compilers for the PC
-- Message-ID: <1991Mar22.145141.1014@esseye.UUCP>
-- Does anyone have any information of 68000 based cross compilers that
-- will run under DOS?
-- Anything would be helpfull.
-- Thanks,
-- dave scholten
I believe there is a 68000 based cross compiler that runs under the following
configuration:
Vendor: Alsys
Host: Compaq 386/20 under Compaq DOS 3.31
Target: Motorola MVME 130COF (68020/68881) with ARTK Version 4.33
I obtained the information from the Ada Jovial Newsletter published
quarterly from the Wright Patterson Ada Validation Facility.
If you or any other interested party wish to receive the newsletter, send
your request to maysee@m11.sews.wpafb.af.mil or mayse@adawc.wpafb.af.mil
Hope this information helps,
Eric Mays
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <None>
@ 1991-05-14 13:35 Ace Stewart
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Ace Stewart @ 1991-05-14 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
Has anyone tried to use the smg$set_cursor_mode with ada and had it
work where the physical cursor _does_ get turned off? I keep having
the cursor appear on the pasteboard, and it is driving me bats! In
writing a spreadsheet, a little blinking cursor is annoying.
Or, due to lack of investigation, am I looking at the wrong routines?
Help! :)
--Ace
--
Ace Stewart | Affiliation: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester, New York
jstewart@rodan.acs.syr.edu jstewart@sunrise.bitnet jstewart@mothra.cns.syr.edu
jstewart@sunspot.cns.syr.edu ace@suvm.bitnet rsjns@suvm.bitnet
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-05-27 8:20 Giorgio del rio
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Giorgio del rio @ 1991-05-27 8:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
We are in the process of standardising Ada specific metrics on behalf of the European Space Agency.
These metrics are covering source size, complexity, resue rate, coupling, cohesion, source stability, etc.
We are looking for information on similar standardisation processes on behalf within large organisation or
companies in order to exchange experiences and to promote convergence of standards.
Thanks in advance,
Paolo Panaroni E-mail: paolo@intecs.it
Methods & Quality Assurance Manager
Intecs Sistemi, Pisa. Italy
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-06-20 13:18 Eric E. Mays 52202
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Eric E. Mays 52202 @ 1991-06-20 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
Doug,
>> Does anyone know of any GOOD teaching material for Ada using
>> interactive video?
>> At this time I am interested in material that assumes a basic
>> competence in Pascal or C.
I believe we received some Ada video tapes from the following, you
might try sending them a letter for information:
USAF Technical Training School
3390th Technical Training Group
Keesler AFB, MS 39534-5000
Eric Mays
maysee@m11.sews.wpafb.af.mil
(513) 255-4472
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* (none)
@ 1991-06-20 13:18 Eric E. Mays 52202
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Eric E. Mays 52202 @ 1991-06-20 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
Claus,
>> I am looking for an Ada package that includes the following
>> functions/procedures:
>> 1. Record locking
>> 2. A function that takes a signal (character) from the keyboard without
>> the usage of the return key. For example: I use only the up arrow key
>> to move up the screen.
>> Also I would be interested if these functions could be written in Ada only
>> (no assembly).
>> I use an ATT 3B2 with the Verdix 5.7C Ada compiler under Unix.
>> Any hints will be appreciated.
Regarding message 2, I believe i've done this with CURSES routines.
These routines are included with the Verdix Ada Development System (VADS).
There is a routine call getch in the curses_s.a located in the publiclib
subdirectory.
Eric Mays
maysee@m11.sews.wpafb.af.mil
(513) 255-4472
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: <None>
@ 1991-09-20 18:58 cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usen @ 1991-09-20 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <1991Sep19.165920.1820@dayton.saic.com> hopperj@dayton.saic.com writ
es:
>
>Type PRI_Stagger_Array is Array (Short_Integer Range <> ) of Short_Integer;
>
>Type InterceptReport is
>Record
> ....
> EXT_Length : Short_Integer;
> PRI_Per_Stagger : PRI_Stagger_Array(EXT_Length);
>End Record;
>
>This will not compile. Is there some why to handle a variable size message
>in Ada?
Your best bet is to use a variant record, using Ext_Length as the
discriminant. In order to let the record length vary, you'll have to
give the discriminant a default value so the type can be unconstrained.
Do you really think your message may be Short_Integer'Last elements long?
(If Short_Integer is 16 bits in your compiler, this is 32767, kind of
a long message).
If not, use a subtype indicating the realistic maximum length, because
some compilers allocate enough space to hold the maximum-length array
This is a time/space tradeoff: some compilers prefer to reallocate,
which saves space but costs time, others allocate for the maximum,
which saves time but may cost a LOT of space if the type of your
discriminant isn't realistic.
Try these type defs:
Type PRI_Stagger_Array is Array (Short_Integer Range <> ) of Short_Integer;
Type InterceptReport (EXT_Length: Short_Integer := 8) is
Record
....
-- EXT_Length : Short_Integer;
-- remove the field here; the discriminant itself is a field
PRI_Per_Stagger : PRI_Stagger_Array(EXT_Length);
End Record;
then, once EXT_Length has a value, stored in a variable Lgth, say,
you can declare
declare
This_Record: Intercept_Report(Ext_Length => Lgth);
begin
...
end;
Give this a shot - see if it works.
Mike Feldman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
Visiting Professor 1991-92 Professor
Dept. of Comp. Sci. and Engrg. Dept. of Elect. Engrg. and Comp. Sci.
University of Washington FR-35 The George Washington University
Seattle, WA 98105 Washington, DC 20052
(206) 685-1376 (voice) (202) 994-5253 (voice)
(206) 543-2969 (fax) (202) 994-5296 (fax)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: <none>
@ 1992-04-03 15:57 David Emery
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: David Emery @ 1992-04-03 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
>Marci Khader says
>In 'C' you could do a fork with the parent not waiting for the
>child to finish.
You can just as easily do this in Ada. But, you'll pay all of the
substantial costs for _process_ context switching in Unix (or VMS).
This cost tends to be prohibitive for many applications!
dave
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
@ 1992-12-03 14:43 dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio @ 1992-12-03 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <9212022347.AA03025@s405.dseg.ti.com> fmoore@sun405.dseg.ti.com (Fre
eman Moore) writes:
>We have a programming standard that limits the number of
>executable statements in a compilation unit.
There's the answer: change the standard. Presumably, this standard
is meant to enhance code readability, testability, maintainability
&c. Simply hacking out a chunk of code as "is separate" will not
enhance any of the above, so the standard is defeating itself.
It would probably be better to restrict not the size but the
functionality of each compilation unit, using perhaps function
points as the key metric. For example, one case statement,
switching on the value of one parameter, should surely be one
compilation unit, but it can be of arbitrary length.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
@ 1992-12-03 15:59 Tuck er Taft
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Tuck er Taft @ 1992-12-03 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <1992Dec3.094334.20038@sei.cmu.edu>
firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>In article <9212022347.AA03025@s405.dseg.ti.com>
fmoore@sun405.dseg.ti.com (Freeman Moore) writes:
>>We have a programming standard that limits the number of
>>executable statements in a compilation unit.
>
>There's the answer: change the standard. Presumably, this standard
>is meant to enhance code readability, testability, maintainability
>&c. Simply hacking out a chunk of code as "is separate" will not
>enhance any of the above, so the standard is defeating itself.
I agree completely with Robert Firth on this one, and would go further.
Arbitrary limits on the size of a compilation unit are a mistake.
On the other hand, limiting the size of an individual subprogram
makes at least some sense.
Many of these standards were written before the concepts of
"packages" were understood. The appropriate limit for the size
of a package is much larger than the appropriate limit for
the size of a single subprogram. If you must have limits,
make these two separate limits. In our experience, replacing
a bunch of subprograms in a package with stubs and separately
compiled subunits makes it much *harder* to read and maintain
such code.
If you need numbers, make them reasonably
generous, and rely on programmers and code reviewers
to police readability and maintainability.
For example, you might (if you must) limit
packages to 4000 SLOC, and subprograms to 200 SLOC.
And as Robert Firth points out, at least large case statements
need to be handled as a special "case" ;-), or good luck
implementing an LR parser or high-speed lexer.
S. Tucker Taft stt@inmet.com
Intermetrics, Inc.
Cambridge, MA 02138
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
@ 1992-12-03 16:57 dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!news!emery
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!news!emery @ 1992-12-03 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
There are a few things in Ada that don't help writing modular code.
Large case statements are one. Another is the requirement that all
task entry accept statements have to be in the main body of the task
(i.e. they can't be in a subroutine within the task.)
Once I coded a 500-600 line task body, most of which was a 300 line
accept statement. This was full of nested accepts, etc. (This was
the key part of a distributed simulation framework, where part of the
distribution was achieved through Ada tasks. The task entry logic was
quite complex to identify and resolve deadlock situations that were
part of the Misra-Chandy distributed simulation variant that we were
implementing.)
I don't know if Ada9X helps "fix" this problem.
But, I agree that the right solution is to "fix" the coding standard.
dave
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
@ 1992-12-04 4:03 Michael Feldman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: Michael Feldman @ 1992-12-04 4:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <1992Dec3.155935.8187@inmet.camb.inmet.com> stt@spock.camb.inmet.com
(Tucker Taft) writes:
>In article <1992Dec3.094334.20038@sei.cmu.edu>
> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>
>>In article <9212022347.AA03025@s405.dseg.ti.com>
> fmoore@sun405.dseg.ti.com (Freeman Moore) writes:
>
>>>We have a programming standard that limits the number of
>>>executable statements in a compilation unit.
>>
>>There's the answer: change the standard. Presumably, this standard
>>is meant to enhance code readability, testability, maintainability
>>&c. Simply hacking out a chunk of code as "is separate" will not
>>enhance any of the above, so the standard is defeating itself.
>
>I agree completely with Robert Firth on this one, and would go further.
>Arbitrary limits on the size of a compilation unit are a mistake.
[remainder deleted]
Hmmm....deja vu all over again. I have in my office, somewhere, an old
coding standard from a large (VERY large) company, to remain nameless.
A pioneer in the old days of structured programming, this company's
people were promulgating the idea - rule of thumb - that a module
should be roughly 100 statements long, because that's two pages of
listing, i.e. what you could spread out on your desk and take in with
a sweep of the eyeball.
The _rule of thumb_ was that if a module (I think they were talking
Fortran or PL/I procedures) was much longer than that, it would be hard
to debug and understand, and serious consideration should be given to
its re-design, as it was probably functionally incoherent as well.
Make sense? Sure. But somewhere along the line, this very useful
rule of thumb was grabbed by a bureaucrat who turned it into a
_Coding Standard_, to be enforced with all the ruthlessness for
which Code Police are legendary. Naturally the Code Police did not
understand the code they were reading; they just counted the LOC
per module.
You've probably guessed by now how the programmers responded, but what
the hell, I'll tell you anyway. They simply chopped the long modules at
100-LOC intervals, making separate procedures (parameterless, I assume)
out of each 100-LOC chunk. This satisfied the bureaucrats....
Beware of knee-jerk, ruthlesssly-enforced coding standards. Better to
apply a little common sense.
BTW - as a Distinguished Reviewer of the Ada Quality and Style guide,
I'm happy to see the relatively softer tones in which this document -
whose final version is nearing release - is speaking. That's one
project in which common sense really does seem to be winning.
Cheers -
Mike Feldman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
co-chair, SIGAda Education Committee
Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
School of Engineering and Applied Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(202) 994-5253 (voice)
(202) 994-5296 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet)
"Americans want the fruits of patience -- and they want them now."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <none>
@ 1993-01-26 23:13 xim
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: xim @ 1993-01-26 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
GROUP comp.std.mumps
ART 65
GROUP comp.theory
ART 3989
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <none>
@ 1993-01-27 16:29 slava
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: slava @ 1993-01-27 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
PACK
GROUP comp.lang.c++
ART 23067
ART 23069
ART 23071
ART 23073
GROUP comp.os.ms-windows.setup
ART 2570
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <none>
@ 1993-01-27 16:39 xim
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: xim @ 1993-01-27 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
GROUP comp.lang.ada
ART 5292
GROUP comp.theory
ART 3993
GROUP misc.jobs.offered
ART 8688
ART 8689
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <none>
@ 1993-01-27 23:09 xim
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: xim @ 1993-01-27 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
CHECK
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <none>
@ 1993-01-27 23:32 xim
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: xim @ 1993-01-27 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
GROUP comp.std.mumps
ART 65
GROUP comp.theory
ART 3989
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* Re: (none)
@ 1993-09-01 7:24 N.B. Hedd
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: N.B. Hedd @ 1993-09-01 7:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
eachus@spectre.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) writes:
>variable_strings.a 29 18 1
>variable_strings_b.a 44 3 1
Next time, try using an off-the-shelf string package instead of writing
your own.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
John R. Moore is an idiot.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
* <None>
@ 1996-07-23 0:00 **
0 siblings, 0 replies; 109+ messages in thread
From: ** @ 1996-07-23 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
msv!uu4news.netcom.com!telesoft!bn
From: bn@alsys.com (Brian Nettleton @pulsar)
Subject: Question on Ada.Strings.Unbounded.Slice
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: pulsar
Message-ID: <DuLu1I.3I7@thomsoft.com>
Summary: Should Index_Error be raised by Slice when High is > Length + 1
Keywords: Slice Strings Ada.Strings Index_Error
Sender: news@thomsoft.com (USENET News Admin @flash)
Organization: Thomson Software Products, San Diego, CA, USA
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 21:51:18 GMT
Lines: 41
Doesn't look like my original posting went through. Here's another try
(my apologies if you receive this twice).
While building David Wheeler's "small" program (part of the Lovelace
tutorial) I came across a problem with Ada.Strings.Unbounded.Slice.
I'm getting Index_error when the High > Length(Source) + 1 (where
High, Length and Source are as defined in spec of Ada.Strings.Unbounded).
Here is a smaller program which displays the problem (i.e. this program
raises Ada.Strings.Index_Error):
with Ada.Strings.Unbounded;
with Ada.Text_Io;
procedure Do_Slice is
package TIO renames Ada.Text_Io;
begin
TIO.Put_Line
( Ada.Strings.Unbounded.Slice
( Source => ASU.To_Unbounded_String( "hello" ),
Low => 1,
High => 7
)
);
end Do_Slice;
RM A.4.4:101 states Slice "propagates Index_Error if Low >
Length(Source) + 1." But the RM is silent on what happens when
High > Length(Source) + 1! Is this an oversight in the RM, or
by silence does the RM mean to imply that Index_Error is only
raised when Low exceeds the bounds of the source? Is it implementation
dependent what happens when High > Length(Source) + 1?
-Brian Nettleton
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 109+ messages in thread
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