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From: bobduff@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Bob Duff)
Subject: Re: Is Ada the future? [was: Is C++ the future?]
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:43:01 GMT
Date: 1994-10-14T20:43:01+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CxoK7q.4x0@inmet.camb.inmet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1994Oct14.103430@di.epfl.ch

In article <1994Oct14.103430@di.epfl.ch>,
>mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) writes:

>|> The core issue:  doing this should be possible.  (Indeed it
>|> was hard for me to imagine that it should ever have been
>|> not possible).
>|> 
>|> -- Obvious Eiffel construction.
>|> class ONE is
>|>  	a:TWO;
>|> end;
>|> 
>|> class TWO is
>|> 	b:ONE;
>|> end;

I think at least part of the reason Ada makes this a bit harder than
some other languages is that in Ada, declarations contain a lot of
executable code.  For example:

    X: Integer range 1..Function_Call(...) := Other_Function_Call(...);

Since declarations have a lot of run time semantics, there needs to be a
well-defined order in which the declarations get executed ("elaborated"
in Ada jargon).  Given this implied run-time ordering, forward
references are a Bad Thing.  Hence the need for incomplete type
declarations, and the restriction that they don't work across multiple
library units.

Note that for multiple library units, the order is implied by the
with_clauses, and is really only a partial order.

Languages that freely allow forward references usually do not have any
way to initialize variables at their declaration point, or else they
restrict the expressions to very simple forms that can be known at
compile time, so the issue of run-time execution doesn't come up.

Certainly initializing a variable with a function call can be useful.
Would it be worth it to sacrifice that in order to achieve a slightly
simpler method for doing mutual recursion across multiple library units?
I don't know.  It's a trade-off.

Note also that the designers believed that the linear elaboration model
also makes the code more readable -- at least in theory, it allows you
to read your program in order, and you won't run across references to
things you've never heard of.

- Bob
-- 
Bob Duff                                bobduff@inmet.com
Oak Tree Software, Inc.
Ada 9X Mapping/Revision Team (Intermetrics, Inc.)



  reply	other threads:[~1994-10-14 20:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1994-09-29 20:08 Is Ada the future? [was: Is C++ the future?] John DiCamillo
1994-09-30 13:45 ` David Weller
1994-10-01 21:40   ` John DiCamillo
1994-10-03  9:53     ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-03 20:41       ` John DiCamillo
1994-10-04  8:41         ` Robb Nebbe
     [not found]           ` <85C825A689A@annwfn.com>
1994-10-13 14:40             ` John Volan
1994-10-13 21:14               ` Matt Kennel
1994-10-14  0:37                 ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-14 10:16                 ` Robb Nebbe
1994-10-14 20:43                   ` Bob Duff [this message]
1994-10-13 22:01           ` Val Kartchner
1994-10-14  1:38             ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-14  9:31             ` Robb Nebbe
1994-10-14 16:16               ` Child packages [nn,pedo,incest,cons] Robert Firth
1994-10-14 17:13                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-17  8:18                   ` Robb Nebbe
1994-10-17 11:52                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-17 21:54                       ` Bob Duff
1994-10-18 10:30                       ` Child packages Robb Nebbe
1994-10-18  9:37                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-18 19:09                           ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-19 11:03                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-19 16:24                               ` Norman H. Cohen
1994-10-19 23:13                                 ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-20 14:06                                   ` Norman H. Cohen
1994-10-20 11:09                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-20 19:02                                       ` Benjamin Ketcham
1994-10-20 17:08                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1994-10-20 16:37                                     ` Bob Duff
1994-10-20 16:40                                       ` Bob Duff
1994-10-21 14:02                                       ` Mark Biggar, 5172
1994-10-21  8:48                                     ` Robb Nebbe
1994-10-19 18:54                               ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-20  0:27                               ` Matt Kennel
1994-10-20  8:21                                 ` Magnus Kempe
1994-10-20 13:52                                 ` John Volan
1994-10-19 16:19                             ` Norman H. Cohen
1994-10-04 14:44         ` Is Ada the future? [was: Is C++ the future?] Robert Dewar
1994-10-04 15:53           ` Richard Kenner
     [not found] ` <36h4pc$9dd@starbase.neosoft.com>
1994-09-30 20:15   ` Benjamin Ketcham
1994-10-02 16:30   ` Robin Rowe
1994-10-02 18:00     ` David Weller
1994-10-03 15:55       ` Netspeak: What is "trolling"? Norman H. Cohen
1994-10-03 17:04         ` Kenneth Aubey 913-4481
1994-10-03 21:06       ` Is Ada the future? [was: Is C++ the future?] John DiCamillo
1994-10-04  0:29         ` David Weller
1994-10-04 17:42           ` John DiCamillo
1994-10-05  8:18             ` Magnus Kempe
1994-10-05 13:49             ` Tucker Taft
     [not found]         ` <36q7m5$4ef@starbase.neosoft.com>
1994-10-04 17:55           ` Robin Rowe
1994-10-04 22:42         ` Tucker Taft
1994-10-03  9:22     ` Andrew Lees
1994-10-03 21:31       ` John DiCamillo
1994-10-04 23:29         ` John DiCamillo
1994-10-05  3:52           ` Robin Rowe
1994-10-05 13:15             ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-05 13:54           ` David Weller
     [not found]             ` <36uhnl$4c1@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
     [not found]               ` <37dp17$gp6@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>
1994-10-11 13:37                 ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-19 11:24               ` Stephen J Bevan
1994-10-19 15:51                 ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-25 12:21                   ` Stephen J Bevan
1994-10-05 17:08           ` Ted Dennison
     [not found]     ` <36msgr$qq2@starbase.neosoft.com>
1994-10-04  7:21       ` Ada compared to C++ Robin Rowe
1994-10-05  6:44         ` Bob Kitzberger
1994-10-05 12:02           ` Robert Dewar
1994-10-05 18:20           ` Bob Kitzberger
1994-10-05  8:44         ` Magnus Kempe
1994-10-05 19:55           ` David Weller
     [not found]   ` <1994Oct6.133002.1@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com>
1994-10-16  3:30     ` Mark S. Hathaway
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