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From: "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"?
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 18:19:30 -0500
Date: 2018-04-26T18:19:30-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <pbtmq3$42s$1@franka.jacob-sparre.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: d39f8a7e-1568-48a2-982d-f1ac6cecf975@googlegroups.com

"Mehdi Saada" <00120260a@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:d39f8a7e-1568-48a2-982d-f1ac6cecf975@googlegroups.com...
> Please bear with my ignorance, but from the exterior, it does seem that 
> verification can switch on or off at a very fine level of granularity. At 
> least in Spark 2014, with pragma spark_mode on/off.
> I'm surprised to read that seniors/experts like Randy almost despise 
> Spark. Can you provide more information ?
> Do you find that:
> 1) the idea of proving formally is most of the time too much time 
> consuming/almost not feasible for humans ?
> 2) good idea, but badly integrated with the language ?
> 3) good idea, but the focus on it made designers lose focus on improving 
> soundness of the language, so that the compiler would not need additional 
> tools and efforts to achieve the same level of code quality ?

Pretty much all of the above. A lot of things aren't worth the effort to 
prove (as Paul noted in his previous notes). At least not *special* effort. 
Full algorithmic proof falls into this category for most things. OTOH, Ada 
has a lot of information that the compiler uses to do essentially proofs to 
make the code better. (Indeed, a tool like Codepeer is just an overgrown 
compiler optimizer.) One can easily imagine feeding back that information to 
the programmer to show problematic areas (that's what I'm trying to do with 
future versions of Janus/Ada).

Too much focus on static proving leads to neglecting what can be done with 
dynamic checks and especially a combination of both. After all, Ada 
compilers go to great lengths to eliminate dynamic checks; the checks that 
can't be eliminated that way are potential problem areas. The same is true 
for contracts.

Anyway, I shouldn't talk too much about this as someone might actually do it 
before I can get the time, and that would not be great. :-)

                                               Randy.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-04-26 23:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 510+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-15 21:48 How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Dan'l Miller
2018-04-16  3:02 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-25 22:48   ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-04-26  8:29     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-16  5:35 ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Paul Rubin
2018-04-16 14:07   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-16 15:23     ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-16 18:07       ` How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? Simon Clubley
2018-04-16 18:13         ` Luke A. Guest
2018-04-16 19:04           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-16 19:53             ` Luke A. Guest
2018-07-10  2:41         ` toanpx.hut
2018-07-10  4:32           ` Lucretia
2018-07-10  4:55             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-07-10 12:06               ` Dan'l Miller
2018-07-10 12:36                 ` Lucretia
2018-07-10 14:26                   ` Simon Wright
2018-07-10 15:37                     ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2018-07-10 13:23                 ` Björn Lundin
2018-07-10 14:19                   ` Simon Wright
2018-07-10 14:57                     ` Björn Lundin
2018-07-10 15:31                       ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-07-10 18:12                         ` Björn Lundin
2018-07-10 18:22                           ` Lucretia
2018-07-10 18:26                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2018-07-10 19:16                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-07-10 14:23               ` Simon Wright
2018-04-17 15:53   ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Dan'l Miller
2018-04-17 18:27     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-19  5:57     ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-19 14:48       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-20 10:27         ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-20 13:25           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-20 13:44             ` Shark8
2018-04-20 17:41               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-20 21:16                 ` Shark8
2018-04-20 21:25                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-20 22:49                     ` Shark8
2018-04-21  0:10                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-21  1:50                         ` Shark8
2018-04-21  2:10                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-21  5:38                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-25 23:02                         ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-04-26  7:45                           ` Simon Wright
2018-04-26  7:57                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-26  8:35                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-26 17:38                             ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-26 19:38                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-27  9:23                                 ` G. B.
2018-04-27  9:52                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-26 23:19                               ` Randy Brukardt [this message]
2018-04-27  7:40                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-30 19:40                                 ` Norman Worth
2018-04-27  1:10                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 18:23                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-21 23:01               ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Brian Drummond
2018-04-21 23:50                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-20 19:34             ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-20 21:16               ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-20 21:24                 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-21 19:27               ` Simon Wright
2018-04-21 21:28                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-21 21:48                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-21 22:11                   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-26  3:48                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-25 22:46           ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-04-25 22:56     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-18 13:29   ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Jere
2018-04-18 17:02     ` Lucretia
2018-04-18 17:59       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-19  2:00         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-04 13:30       ` Jere
2018-05-04 15:57         ` Simon Wright
2018-05-04 19:07         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-04 19:25           ` Jere
2018-05-05  4:01           ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-05  8:06             ` Simon Wright
2018-05-05 20:02               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-05 20:22                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-05 23:06                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-05 23:32                     ` G.B.
2018-05-05 23:37                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-06  1:15                         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-06  7:08                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-06  8:02                           ` Simon Wright
2018-05-06  8:38                             ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06 10:16                               ` Simon Wright
2018-05-06 15:18                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06 17:40                                   ` Simon Wright
2018-05-06 16:58                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-05-08  6:32                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08  8:28                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-05-09  6:42                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 11:18                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-05-07 23:44                     ` How to get Ada to 'cross the chasm'? Randy Brukardt
2018-07-14  9:27       ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? jm.tarrasa
2018-07-14 10:07         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-07-14 14:28           ` Shark8
2018-07-14 15:04             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-07-14 15:48             ` Niklas Holsti
2018-07-25  5:16               ` Brad Moore
2018-07-15 14:32             ` AdaMagica
2018-07-15 15:16               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-07-14 14:49         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-04-19  9:31     ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-04-18  1:48 ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-18  9:54   ` Simon Wright
2018-04-18 12:47     ` How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? Simon Clubley
2018-04-18 14:12       ` Simon Wright
2018-04-18 19:57       ` invalid
2018-04-18 12:44   ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-18 13:53     ` J-P. Rosen
2018-04-18 18:19       ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-18 18:54         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-18 14:31     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-18 17:08       ` Lucretia
2018-04-18 18:42         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-18 21:03         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-04-19  4:01           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-19 14:28             ` Shark8
2018-04-19 14:57               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-19 15:25               ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-20 16:32             ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-20 17:45               ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-22 20:14                 ` gautier.de.montmollin
2018-04-22 20:34                 ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-25 23:31               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-25 23:27             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-19 16:02           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-19  6:47         ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-18 14:36     ` Simon Wright
2018-04-18 15:56       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-18 17:15         ` Lucretia
2018-04-18 17:36       ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-18 20:02         ` invalid
2018-04-25 23:35         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-18 16:45     ` Lucretia
2018-04-18 17:30       ` Simon Wright
2018-04-18 17:49         ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-18 17:11     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-18 20:00     ` invalid
2018-04-18 20:46       ` Simon Wright
2018-04-22 17:48         ` invalid
2018-04-22 20:15           ` Simon Wright
2018-04-19 15:12     ` Olivier Henley
2018-04-20  8:16     ` briot.emmanuel
2018-04-20  9:42       ` Maciej Sobczak
2018-04-20 13:32       ` Lucretia
2018-04-22 17:52       ` invalid
2018-04-25 23:41         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-26  1:04           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-26 23:27             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-26  1:45           ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-26 23:01             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-27  0:53               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-27 21:20                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-28 17:25                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-29  0:39                   ` patrick
2018-04-29  5:26                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29  7:15                     ` Simon Wright
2018-04-29  7:54                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-29  8:26                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29  7:57                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-29  8:21                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-29 11:33                       ` patrick
2018-04-29 12:31                         ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-29 14:34                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 14:42                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-29 14:59                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 15:16                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-29 14:45                             ` patrick
2018-05-01  2:45                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-29 14:57                         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-30 13:06                       ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-30 16:56                         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-30 17:18                           ` Simon Clubley
2018-04-30 17:44                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-30 20:53                             ` Simon Wright
2018-04-29  8:39                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-29 10:50                       ` patrick
2018-04-29 14:52                         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-29 15:09                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 15:14                           ` patrick
2018-04-30  9:35                           ` Björn Lundin
2018-04-30 15:15                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-05-11 20:19                         ` Warren
2018-05-11 20:44                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-12  7:38                           ` G.B.
2018-05-15  7:19                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-05-15  7:24                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-15  7:44                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-29 14:15                     ` Lucretia
2018-04-29  5:22                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29  6:29                     ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-29  6:44                     ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-29  7:01                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29  7:21                         ` Simon Wright
2018-04-29  7:48                         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-04-29 14:58                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01  3:08                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-01  4:26                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01  6:43                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-01  7:09                                   ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-01 22:32                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02  8:46                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-02 14:23                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-02 14:36                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-01  8:17                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-01  9:02                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01 11:29                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-01 15:45                                       ` patrick
2018-05-01 16:48                                         ` Lucretia
2018-05-01 17:07                                         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-01 17:27                                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-02  0:23                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01 22:37                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02  0:05                                           ` David Trudgett
2018-05-01 17:34                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01 18:30                                         ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-02  0:02                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-02 16:51                                   ` G.B.
2018-05-01  2:59                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-01  3:45                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01  7:21                             ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-02  0:46                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-02 21:27                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02 22:28                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-03  0:07                                     ` Mehdi Saada
2018-05-03  0:25                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-03 23:14                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-04  0:07                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-04 23:29                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-05  4:07                                           ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-05  9:50                                             ` Ben Bacarisse
2018-05-05 23:35                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-06  8:34                                             ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06  9:53                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-06 15:32                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06 17:40                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-06 19:27                                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06 21:02                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-07  1:31                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07  7:25                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-07 17:49                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07 19:05                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-07 20:29                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07 23:54                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-08  7:34                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-09  5:02                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09  6:41                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09  6:49                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09  8:25                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-09 21:33                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10  8:07                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-10 22:27                                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-11  1:07                                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 10:04                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-11 10:57                                                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 12:06                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-11 21:29                                                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-10 21:58                                                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-10 22:52                                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  7:15                                                                               ` Simon Wright
2018-05-11  7:21                                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 20:46                                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-11 12:46                                                                               ` Lucretia
2018-05-14 10:56                                                                                 ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-05-08 22:26                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09  1:20                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 20:03                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09 22:03                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 20:47                                                                           ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-10 23:15                                                                             ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-11  7:51                                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11  8:10                                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  9:16                                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 16:45                                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-11 19:22                                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 22:39                                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-12  9:29                                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-12 10:57                                                                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-12 15:51                                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-12 16:08                                                                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-12 17:10                                                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-14 22:21                                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-15 17:34                                                                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-15 21:32                                                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-16 16:57                                                                                         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-16 18:07                                                                                           ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-16 18:19                                                                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-15 18:44                                                                                     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-15 20:41                                                                                     ` wilson
2018-05-12 15:45                                                                                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-12 19:04                                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-12 19:59                                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-13 13:19                                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-13 17:03                                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-14  0:36                                                                                           ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-12 20:01                                                                                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-13 13:41                                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-13 15:00                                                                                         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-12 18:37                                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-12 21:27                                                                                   ` Forth and others (Was Re: How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm??) Niklas Holsti
2018-05-13  2:21                                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-13  3:20                                                                                       ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-13  3:34                                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-13  6:33                                                                                           ` Simon Wright
2018-05-13 10:21                                                                                           ` Mart van de Wege
2018-05-13 12:43                                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-13  8:06                                                                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-09  8:25                                                                     ` How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-08 21:43                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 21:28                                                             ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 21:46                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-09  7:23                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09  8:37                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-09 19:41                                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09 19:48                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-08 21:02                                                         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 21:34                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-06 19:02                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-06 18:38                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08 20:53                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 22:41                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07  1:49                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08 21:23                                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09  0:53                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 20:05                                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-10 21:57                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 12:20                                                         ` Marius Amado-Alves
2018-05-11 16:34                                                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-11 17:39                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 18:59                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 19:50                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 20:32                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-12  1:04                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 20:39                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 21:45                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-11 22:04                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-12  6:44                                                                         ` J-P. Rosen
2018-05-11 19:58                                                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-08 20:44                                         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 21:31                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 11:16                                             ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-10 19:32                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-04  0:59                                     ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2018-05-03  7:15                                 ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-03  7:20                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-03 12:05                                     ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-03 20:38                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-03 22:27                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-03 22:41                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-03 23:45                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-04  0:28                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-04 22:30                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-09 20:03                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 20:15                                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09 20:41                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 22:56                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-09 23:33                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10  0:03                                                         ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-10  0:23                                                           ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2018-05-10  1:53                                                             ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-10  0:41                                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10  1:53                                                             ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-10  2:07                                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10  7:29                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-10  3:47                                                             ` Shark8
2018-05-10  4:08                                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 23:55                                                       ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-10 22:10                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-10  9:01                                                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-10 17:34                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 19:11                                                           ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-10 19:36                                                             ` Simon Wright
2018-05-10 20:00                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 21:23                                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-10 23:21                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  1:32                                                                   ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-11  7:58                                                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11  8:21                                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  7:04                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11  8:07                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-10 22:15                                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-10 23:32                                                               ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-11  0:05                                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  2:54                                                                   ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-11  8:43                                                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11  9:09                                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  9:14                                                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 13:07                                                                         ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-11 11:26                                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-11 21:24                                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-11 13:09                                                                       ` Lucretia
2018-05-11 17:51                                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11 14:35                                                                       ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-05-11 21:09                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-04  7:15                                               ` Simon Wright
2018-05-04 22:02                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-05  7:37                                                   ` Simon Wright
2018-05-07 20:40                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-08 20:41                                           ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-08 21:00                                             ` Egil H H
2018-05-09 21:57                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-09 22:05                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-09 22:05                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-09 22:09                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-11  7:37                                               ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-04  3:24                                         ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-04  3:34                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-04  4:28                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08  2:05                                               ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08  2:19                                                 ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08  2:47                                                   ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08  2:54                                                     ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-08  3:25                                                       ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08  4:19                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08  5:46                                                     ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08  6:31                                                       ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-08  6:34                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08 14:25                                                           ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08  6:36                                                       ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08  9:03                                                         ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08 14:05                                                           ` gautier_niouzes
2018-05-08 14:31                                                             ` Simon Wright
2018-05-08 16:39                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2018-05-08 18:54                                                             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-08 19:05                                                               ` Simon Wright
2018-05-08 20:12                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-08 20:24                                                               ` J-P. Rosen
2018-05-09  9:27                                                                 ` Björn Lundin
2018-05-09  9:56                                                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2018-05-09 21:53                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-08  7:45                                                       ` Simon Wright
2018-05-08 21:59                                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-09  8:44                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-05-04 23:34                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-01 22:17                             ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02  0:04                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-02 21:24                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02 22:01                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 16:14                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-29 16:54                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 18:21                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-29 18:52                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 19:09                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-29 20:44                               ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-29 20:55                             ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-29 21:20                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 22:06                                 ` gautier_niouzes
2018-04-29 23:22                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-30  1:50                                     ` Jere
2018-04-30  2:16                                     ` Lucretia
2018-04-30  2:33                                       ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-30  3:05                                         ` Luke A. Guest
2018-04-30  3:37                                           ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-30  4:02                                             ` Lucretia
2018-04-30  4:03                                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-30  4:18                                                 ` Lucretia
2018-04-30  5:11                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-30  5:21                                                     ` Lucretia
2018-04-30  5:29                                                       ` Lucretia
2018-04-30  4:04                                             ` Lucretia
2018-04-30 14:30                                 ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-01  3:19                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-02  2:07                                   ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-01  2:32                             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-02  0:47                               ` Paul Rubin
2018-04-29 11:34                   ` patrick
2018-07-13  8:22       ` jm.tarrasa
2018-07-13 15:17         ` Lucretia
2018-07-21 19:51         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-25 23:19     ` Randy Brukardt
2018-04-28 17:13       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-28 17:25         ` Mehdi Saada
2018-05-01  2:36           ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-01  2:32         ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-01 18:39           ` marciant
2018-04-30  2:09     ` Commercial GPL David Trudgett
2018-04-30  6:01       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2018-04-30 20:39     ` How to get Ada to ?cross the chasm?? Norman Worth
2018-04-30 21:36       ` Simon Wright
2018-05-02 14:39     ` ric.wai88
2018-05-02 17:10       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-02 22:48         ` Niklas Holsti
2018-05-03 17:00           ` Simon Wright
2018-05-03 17:58             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-03 18:37             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-04-18 22:44 ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Olivier Henley
2018-04-30 11:28 ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-30 12:39   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2018-04-30 11:30 ` Mehdi Saada
2018-04-30 20:15 ` Norman Worth
2018-05-04 16:13 ` guyclaude.burger
2018-05-04 16:47   ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-04 23:48     ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-05-05  3:33       ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-05  8:41         ` Luke A. Guest
2018-05-06  0:12           ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07 20:50           ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-07 21:13             ` Paul Rubin
2018-05-07 23:59               ` Randy Brukardt
2018-05-07 21:27             ` Dan'l Miller
2018-05-04 19:05   ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Jere
2018-05-04 23:55     ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-05-05 16:47     ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? G.B.
2018-05-07 23:36       ` How to get Ada to "cross the chasm"? Randy Brukardt
2018-05-09  7:33         ` G.B.
2018-05-18 12:10 ` How to get Ada to “cross the chasm”? Lucretia
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-05-11 22:39 How to get Ada to 'cross the chasm'? Randy Brukardt
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