From: Chris Humphries <chris@unixfu.net>
Subject: Re: Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:45:16 -0400
Date: 2004-09-27T09:45:16-04:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <10lg6b9j3mavpeb@news.supernews.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <415813FE.9090803@unixfu.net>
I apologize, first thing in the morning on a monday without any
caffeine :) Type-o's exist in places, heh.
Chris Humphries wrote:
> Kevin Cline wrote:
>
>>
>> Again, the original question was "Why isn't Ada more popular?"
>> The answer I am giving is that most programmers don't have such an
>> overriding concern for safety that they are willing to write twice as
>> much code to get the additional safety.
>>
>
> (whoa, what a thread this has become!)
>
> Thanks, and good answer. Since then asking that question, I have
> learned a lot more about Ada. John Barnes' book, "Programming in
> Ada 96, 2nd Edition" helped tremendously. A very good book. It is
> now nice to understand just what Ada _is_, and not just another
> programming language, but more an attempting at progressing software
> engineering.
>
> I also think I understand why Ada is not more popular. Though I
> am very thankful for open source, and feel very strongly about about
> it, something bad has grown out of it: bad programmers and programs.
> Most open source projects seem to have no formal software development
> process. There is more an attitude of "shut up and hack", which
> typically goes by whatever they get features to do from, which may
> be from whatever they want, if there is a TODO list, then you are
> lucky. There is usually no goals or anything actually defined, no
> use cases (I would put money on most do not even know what one is,
> and if they did, what they would use it for), no unit tests or any
> automated framework for making sure the code does as designed (which
> brings me to my next one), no design documentation or even a design
> process.
>
> Many young/inexperienced programmers do not even see why this is
> important, as their code works, and generally they are done with it
> then and there. In the real world, and in my job, most of the time
> is spend updating code. Good times are when I get to design something
> new, most the time is spent doing grunt work.
>
> In a time when most programs are written by having a 1-2 thought
> process of 1) i want my program to do this and 2) type-type-run-repeat,
> such languages that allow you to do this easier are more popular, such
> as php and perl.
>
> Granted, I do code perl for some of the legacy projects here (no I am
> not a web developer, heh), and if standards are in place, perl code can
> be very readable and understandable. Coding standards are nice, yet
> seem to be rarely used.
>
> Again, sorry to start a thread that went off on a 400+ post tangent,
> yet now I understand.
>
> If anyone new to Ada, yet not to programming is reading this, I strongly
> recommend getting "Programming in Ada 95, 2nd Edition" by John Barnes.
>
> Thanks c.l.ada!
>
> -Chris
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-09-27 13:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-09-22 0:21 Ada Popularity: Comparison of Ada/Charles with C++ STL (and Perl) Kevin Cline
2004-09-22 2:16 ` Pylinius
2004-09-22 8:50 ` Björn Persson
2004-09-22 13:38 ` Benjamin Ketcham
2004-09-22 14:07 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-22 15:16 ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23 8:22 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 10:52 ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 10:54 ` stephane richard
2004-09-23 11:17 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-09-23 11:47 ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-23 13:34 ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-23 16:53 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23 18:30 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:00 ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-09-24 6:04 ` [OT]Screen ergonomics, was " Anders Wirzenius
2004-09-26 7:22 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:19 ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-23 8:51 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:01 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 15:59 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 16:38 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 2:47 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 13:43 ` Hyman Rosen
2004-09-24 17:47 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-24 18:16 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 19:29 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-09-29 22:44 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-25 14:09 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26 7:08 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:13 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:10 ` jayessay
2004-09-23 21:13 ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 2:12 ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 14:21 ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 14:51 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 17:10 ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-27 20:16 ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 21:15 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-28 4:46 ` Keith H Duggar
2004-09-27 20:34 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 21:15 ` Adam Ruth
2004-09-23 23:05 ` Brian May
2004-09-24 3:06 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 3:52 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24 5:15 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:12 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 20:54 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24 21:23 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 13:22 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-27 13:45 ` Chris Humphries [this message]
2004-09-27 21:31 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 23:51 ` Brian May
2004-09-28 12:21 ` Chris Humphries
2004-09-26 17:10 ` jayessay
2004-09-26 20:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:45 ` jayessay
2004-09-24 0:19 ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-24 14:54 ` Cesar Rabak
2004-09-22 15:27 ` James Alan Farrell
2004-09-22 21:24 ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23 0:03 ` Brian May
2004-09-23 9:17 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 0:44 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-23 11:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 8:15 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-23 16:20 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:23 ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24 7:19 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-24 16:31 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 19:24 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25 14:04 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-26 10:36 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-26 15:35 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-28 17:46 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29 7:49 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 12:01 ` Xenos
2004-09-29 18:16 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 15:55 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27 22:22 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28 7:51 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 3:04 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29 6:03 ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-29 13:31 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 13:46 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30 3:42 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-30 7:54 ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-30 16:50 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-01 0:04 ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 12:25 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-10-02 7:35 ` K
2004-10-02 10:00 ` Brian May
2004-10-02 20:39 ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-03 2:17 ` Brian May
2004-10-02 13:40 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-02 23:33 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-10-03 12:47 ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-30 19:01 ` Björn Persson
2004-09-30 23:54 ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-01 16:11 ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02 6:48 ` K
2004-10-02 10:41 ` Björn Persson
2004-10-02 13:32 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04 9:02 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 9:00 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 11:27 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 19:11 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 21:01 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-26 6:53 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:29 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-23 21:54 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24 9:44 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24 9:50 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 13:47 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 14:14 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-25 14:17 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-27 8:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 12:59 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 13:53 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26 7:17 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 8:19 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-27 13:03 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-27 14:00 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-24 16:28 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-24 17:45 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-24 20:14 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:10 ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-09-27 8:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-26 7:13 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:15 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:31 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-27 15:05 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28 4:22 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28 8:20 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-28 23:26 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29 12:19 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-30 18:52 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01 7:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:35 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:28 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 21:09 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11 8:08 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15 9:34 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 16:58 ` Martin Krischik
2004-09-29 15:44 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-30 18:27 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-28 17:21 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-29 1:38 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 18:08 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 18:30 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-29 8:08 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-09-29 18:11 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-09-30 8:57 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
[not found] ` <cji06f$17a$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
2004-10-01 8:58 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-03 19:53 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-04 10:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-04 12:16 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-10-04 13:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-06 17:20 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-07 10:08 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-10 22:21 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-11 8:46 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-15 9:25 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-15 11:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-20 20:06 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-21 2:51 ` Kevin Cline
2004-10-21 8:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-10-27 21:41 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-01 13:02 ` Robert Kawulak
2004-10-28 10:26 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-09-27 16:21 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-28 2:47 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-28 4:03 ` Brian May
2004-09-28 4:46 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 3:14 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-29 3:50 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 3:52 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-29 13:44 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-26 6:32 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 15:05 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-27 14:35 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 19:30 ` jayessay
2004-09-23 19:42 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-09-22 21:05 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 9:20 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 16:58 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-09-23 6:24 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 11:23 ` Jeff C r e e.m
2004-09-23 11:35 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-09-23 17:05 ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 17:07 ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 18:30 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:31 ` Simon Wright
2004-09-24 0:09 ` Stephen Leake
2004-09-25 10:41 ` Simon Wright
2004-09-23 18:24 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-23 17:12 ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-23 18:10 ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 19:21 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 19:31 ` Ed Falis
2004-09-23 19:37 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-24 20:09 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-25 0:18 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26 6:37 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 14:57 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-23 19:24 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-23 21:30 ` Eric Jacoboni
2004-09-26 11:44 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-26 17:02 ` jayessay
2004-09-24 8:26 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-23 22:08 ` Anders Gidenstam
2004-09-24 8:10 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-09-24 17:43 ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 17:40 ` Dan Andreatta
2004-09-24 18:50 ` Pascal Obry
2004-09-23 22:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-23 23:11 ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24 1:57 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 6:32 ` Dale Stanbrough
2004-09-24 21:01 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-09-24 0:43 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-09-24 1:51 ` Matthew Heaney
2004-09-24 20:21 ` Kevin Cline
2004-09-26 11:09 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-09-27 13:49 ` Björn Persson
2004-10-12 5:21 ` Ada Popularity: Comparison of languages Brian May
2004-10-12 11:43 ` Peter Hermann
replies disabled
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox