Ada?

Ada?

[anymous]

I was thinking about learning ada.  I was wondering were the language was
heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its
uses.  I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any?  Thanks for any
info.

Re: Ada?

[chris.danx]

"anymous" <anymous@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4ezc8.1103$48.60681@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> I was thinking about learning ada.  I was wondering were the language was
> heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its
> uses.  I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any?  Thanks for any
> info.

Try http://www.adapower.com and
http://adahome.com/Tutorials/Lovelace/lovelace.htm for more information on
the language.  You can probably find a link to the public version of the
GNAT compiler in adapower, which is good (it's free).


Chris

Re: Ada?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <4ezc8.1103$48.60681@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "anymous" <anymous@nowhere.com> writes:
> I was thinking about learning ada.  I was wondering were the language was
> heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its
> uses.  I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any?  Thanks for any
> info.

Knowing another programming language is good.
Presuming the next programming language will be just like the last is bad.

Ada is particularly useful for projects where the software must be
correct, such as running machinery that might kill people.  Although
it can be used for any project, like a web browser, companies working
on projects like that sometimes choose languages whose compilers will
not be so tenacious about reporting programming errors.

A good mental attitude for using Ada is to think of the compiler
as an assistant that will help you find errors before you deliver
them to the user.

Re: Ada?

[Nick Roberts]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:21:30 -0600, "anymous" <anymous@nowhere.com>
strongly typed:

>I was thinking about learning ada.  I was wondering were the language was
>heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its
>uses.  I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any?  Thanks for any
>info.

I encourage you to learn Ada, at least to a basic level (as it were ;-)
since the knowledge will certainly help you to use and understand other
languages better (yes, really true).

Ada is not obsolete yet, and will not become utterly obsolete for a long
time. It is, however, used for only a tiny percentage of all the
professional programming projects in the world, and this seems unlikely to
change significantly in the foreseeable future (much as we Ada enthusiasts
would wish otherwise). The projects Ada is used in may be considered
'glamorous' (e.g. the flight systems of the Space Shuttle); but getting a
job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
reportedly near impossible in most other countries).

On the other hand, there is a huge demand for Visual Basic at the moment
(which may well shift towards Java, C#, and maybe other 'flavour' languages
in the not-too-distant future). You should endeavour to learn either VB or
Java, if you may be looking to get a programming job to pay the rent. I'd
also suggest it's important you learn elementary SQL (if you haven't
already).

If you are in the unusual position of being able to choose a programming
language for a particular project, then the next question is certainly
"What is your application?" (The application domain for VB is very
different to that of Ada, and the overlap is small.)

My advice for getting a programming job is: find out as much as you can
about what the prospective employer is doing, and needs (or is likely to
need) programmers for, and then walk in and (LIE!) make out your skills and
interests are all in those areas (with a totally straight face); whichever
languages they use or require skill in, tell them you know them all
intimately (again, just LIE, even if you've never of heard of them); always
be courteous, but assume the company -- no matter how big, slick, or
impressive -- is a pile of pig excrement to work for, and ask as many
diplomatic questions as you can to allow them to prove otherwise (and if
they fail to prove otherwise, take another offer if you have one). Simply
do not worry you are overselling yourself (just take it from me). Emphasise
practicality.

As ever, I add the advice that, in reality, the way you program is always
more important than the language you program in, and that the language
chosen should always be the one 'right for the job', just like a carpenter
will select just the right tool, from a box of many. The more languages you
know (to a level where you can use it in anger), the better a programmer
you are; it's not _which_ languages you know that counts, but how many.
There's also things such as your knowledge of libraries, programming tricks
and techniques, algorithms, and debugging. Above all, simple patience
typically marks out an unusually useful programmer.

On the other hand, do not overload your brain (this is actually a serious
comment). Do stretch yourself,  but not too far. We all have limitations:
find yours, and do not grossly exceed them; do not hurt the most precious
thing you have (your mind). If you ever get to the point where (for more
than just a few days) you don't enjoy programming any more, quit it as soon
as you diplomatically can, and pursue a better career (there are many).

Enough advice! Good luck. 

-- 
Nick Roberts

Re: Ada?

[Georg Bauhaus]

Nick Roberts <nickroberts@ukf.net> wrote:
 
: My advice for getting a programming job is: find out as much as you can
: about what the prospective employer is doing, and needs (or is likely to
: need) programmers for, and then walk in and (LIE!) make out your skills and
: interests are all in those areas (with a totally straight face); whichever
: languages they use or require skill in, tell them you know them all
: intimately (again, just LIE, even if you've never of heard of them);

This and the following information might, among other things,
well be considered country specific, just to mention.

: always
: be courteous, but assume the company -- no matter how big, slick, or
: impressive -- is a pile of pig excrement to work for, and ask as many
: diplomatic questions as you can to allow them to prove otherwise (and if
: they fail to prove otherwise, take another offer if you have one). Simply
: do not worry you are overselling yourself (just take it from me). Emphasise
: practicality.

Re: Ada?

[Enrico A.]

Ciao,
 
>but getting a
> job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
> reportedly near impossible in most other countries).

here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use
it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
too.
I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
about Ada in Italian on print.
But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
Month ago)...
Ciao,
   Enrico B.A.

Re: Ada?

[Ken Pinard]

I learned Ada orginally when I was working on a Masters degree in CS. The
major advantage was that I spent about 1/5 the time doing the home work as
any other student in my class (using Meridian Ada on an 8080 computer).

The concepts used in Ada development are sound foundations for any language.
I have programmed in many languages in the last 20 years, from Fortran, C,
Ada, Pascal, VB. Knowing Ada has helped me develpment applications that are
more universal and easier to maintain.

Are there jobs, That is always the a good question. If I was willing to move
I could still be doing Ada now. But, I want to live in an area focusing on
Java. I currently use VB for most applications. But, because of the
direction of VB.Net (going to C++ style and problems) I am looking at Ada
again for developing a Windows application.  At least Microsoft can't pull
the rug out from under me again.

My opinion for what it is worth,
Ken

"anymous" <anymous@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4ezc8.1103$48.60681@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> I was thinking about learning ada.  I was wondering were the language was
> heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its
> uses.  I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any?  Thanks for any
> info.
>
>
>

Re: Ada?

[Colin Paul Gloster]

In article <98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>, Et
27 Feb 2002 07:26:13 -0800 ETnrico A. wrote:
  "Ciao,
   
 >but getting a
 > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
 > reportedly near impossible in most other countries).
  
  here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use
  it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
  too.
  I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
  bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
  Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
  laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
  Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
  ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
  about Ada in Italian on print.
  But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
  ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
  years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
  Month ago)...
  Ciao,
     Enrico B.A"

If there are Italian companies you know of which use Ada, why not
work for them? I think you would find it hard to get work in the
U.S.A. because there is official national interest bias towards
hiring U.S. citizens.

I think you will find it hard to work with Ada in the U.S.A. because
it would be tougher to get miliatry clearance; and a former corrspondent 
of mine at Meteosat reported extreme opposition to his notion of
working for NASA. However, I think that foreigners can work for
companies which work for NASA (and may actually have their offices at
NASA sites).

Also, consider other European countries with Ada users.

Congratulations on your newly born child.t

Re: Ada?

[Ted Dennison]

Colin Paul Gloster <Colin_Paul_Gloster@ACM.org> wrote in message news:<slrna9ekvf.9nt.Colin_Paul_Gloster@syrah.ncl.ac.uk>...
> I think you will find it hard to work with Ada in the U.S.A. because
> it would be tougher to get miliatry clearance; and a former corrspondent 

I don't know about that. Perhaps it is a bit tougher, but I've
certianly never seen that reflected in the numbers of foriegn-born
coworkers I've had. I had one heavy-clearance job back in the early
'90s where nearly 1/3 of the software developers were born in
communist countries! That particular job happened to be developing the
software for a COMSEC (communications security...aka encryption)
device for the NSA. Admittedly, none of them were foriegn nationals at
the time.

But my current job has 2 foriegn nationals working on it (inculding my
supervisor); one A Brit and the other Canadian. As a matter of fact,
my typing of this posting was interrupted by us comparing the pretty
designs on their green cards. :-)

My previous job had 3 foriegn nationals working on it in software (out
of about 9); one Indian, one Lebaneese, and one southeast asian (I
never asked where exactly).

I currently have other collegues here (not working on the same
project) who are from Pakistan, China, Japan, Africa, and Malaysia.
This isn't in some huge cosmopolotian coastal city either, its in the
middle of Oklahoma.

The fact of the matter is that the USA is a *nation* of immigrants.
Anyone who thinks we are somehow "against" the rest of the world
doesn't really appreciate the situation.


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Ada?

[Dan Andreatta]

Dunno in IT, but in chemistry/physics/others you have to be a citizen or a 
foreign national to work in a national lab (like Livermore or Los Alamos). 
A visa is not enough (B, J, whatever). Of course, you need clearance.

Dan

PS: The green card is _really_ nice... aesthetically and practically :-)

Re: Ada?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <Xns91D6AD7FA7588andreattamailchemsce@12.252.202.62>, Dan Andreatta <andreatta@mail.chem.sc.edu.REMOVEME> writes:
> Dunno in IT, but in chemistry/physics/others you have to be a citizen or a 
> foreign national to work in a national lab (like Livermore or Los Alamos). 

I was under the impression that the term "foreign national" meant
anyone who was not a citizen.

But is is reassuring you have to be one or the other to work there.
I would hate to think of all the good jobs going to rocks :-)

Re: Ada?

[Adrian Hoe]

muaddib@digibank.it (Enrico A.) wrote in message news:<98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>...
> Ciao,
>  
> >but getting a
> > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
> > reportedly near impossible in most other countries).
> 
> here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use
> it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
> too.
> I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
> bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
> Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
> laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
> Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
> ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
> about Ada in Italian on print.
> But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
> ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
> years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
> Month ago)...
> Ciao,
>    Enrico B.A.


Living standard is high in the US and almost 1/3 of your salary go to
your taxes. Each state has different tax rates. You should find out
regarding taxes, living expenses, rental, etc. US$4000-US$6000 a month
is merely enough for one to survive. I hope you have got more than
this figure. You should also find out more about health care (health
care is very expensive in US) and health insurance. You should have
insurance to cover the health care for you, your wive and your child.

But Ada jobs usually pay high in US even you are not working for
Millitary or so.

This is just my opinion and for the sake of the archive, so you should
find out from your friends or relatives (if any) living in US.

                                       -- Adrian Hoe
                                       -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[Adrian Hoe]

Ted Dennison wrote:
> 
> 
> The fact of the matter is that the USA is a *nation* of immigrants.
> Anyone who thinks we are somehow "against" the rest of the world
> doesn't really appreciate the situation.


I know, I know... This isn't the right place to talk about politics
here. But since Ted has posted his view, I just would like to comment.
:)

Ted is right that USA is a land of freedom and a nation of immigrants.
There are many opportunities there if one is willing to leave his home
and come to USA! I think everyone in this world appreciate this
situation but disagree on USA political base.

I have many many friends in USA, and that includes Americans, Jamaicans,
Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)

I had got a consulting job (doing Ada) in USA couple years back but I
did not take up the offer simply because it took too much hassle to get
a working visa. But that did not stop me doing Ada. With my free spirit
roaming and the current trend of globalization and with the Internet,
the world is equivalent, I think.
-- 
                                       -- Adrian Hoe
                                       -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[DPH]

On 19 Mar 2002 17:41:29 -0800, byhoe@greenlime.com (Adrian Hoe) wrote:

>muaddib@digibank.it (Enrico A.) wrote in message news:<98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>...
>> Ciao,
>>  
>> >but getting a
>> > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
>> > reportedly near impossible in most other countries).
>> 
>> here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use
>> it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
>> too.
>> I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
>> bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
>> Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
>> laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
>> Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
>> ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
>> about Ada in Italian on print.
>> But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
>> ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
>> years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
>> Month ago)...
>> Ciao,
>>    Enrico B.A.
>
>
>Living standard is high in the US and almost 1/3 of your salary go to
>your taxes. Each state has different tax rates. You should find out
>regarding taxes, living expenses, rental, etc. US$4000-US$6000 a month
>is merely enough for one to survive.

Oh, well, it isn't all _that_ bad.  Survival can be accomplished at
$1500 a month and sometimes less - but its just survival - no comfort.
You'd be known as "poor".

$4000 - $6000 a month is pretty good money, depending on where you
make it.  I don't make $6000, and I do pretty good in Virginia, a high
cost state.  A lot more than just "surviving", for sure.  It'd be a
lot more comfortable in Indianapolis, Indiana, or Orlando, Florida
tho.

>I hope you have got more than
>this figure. You should also find out more about health care (health
>care is very expensive in US) and health insurance. You should have
>insurance to cover the health care for you, your wive and your child.

Health care insurance is very important, all right.

>But Ada jobs usually pay high in US even you are not working for
>Millitary or so.

Ada programmers, being relatively rare, do get paid well, usually.

Dave Head

>This is just my opinion and for the sake of the archive, so you should
>find out from your friends or relatives (if any) living in US.
>
>                                       -- Adrian Hoe
>                                       -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[Reinert Korsnes]

Adrian Hoe wrote:

> muaddib@digibank.it (Enrico A.) wrote in message
> news:<98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>...
>> Ciao,
>>  
>> >but getting a
>> > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
>> > reportedly near impossible in most other countries).
>> 
>> here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use

Just curious:

They make much Ada software for ESA (European Space Agency) in Italy ?
Esrin ?

reinert


>> it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
>> too.
>> I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
>> bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
>> Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
>> laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
>> Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
>> ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
>> about Ada in Italian on print.
>> But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
>> ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
>> years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
>> Month ago)...
>> Ciao,
>>    Enrico B.A.
> 
> 
> Living standard is high in the US and almost 1/3 of your salary go to
> your taxes. Each state has different tax rates. You should find out
> regarding taxes, living expenses, rental, etc. US$4000-US$6000 a month
> is merely enough for one to survive. I hope you have got more than
> this figure. You should also find out more about health care (health
> care is very expensive in US) and health insurance. You should have
> insurance to cover the health care for you, your wive and your child.
> 
> But Ada jobs usually pay high in US even you are not working for
> Millitary or so.
> 
> This is just my opinion and for the sake of the archive, so you should
> find out from your friends or relatives (if any) living in US.
> 
>                                        -- Adrian Hoe
>                                        -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[Gary Scott]

Adrian Hoe wrote:
> 
> muaddib@digibank.it (Enrico A.) wrote in message news:<98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>...
> > Ciao,
> >
> > >but getting a
> > > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and
> > > reportedly near impossible in most other countries).
> >
> > here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use
> > it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat
> > too.
> > I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest
> > bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in
> > Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he
> > laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses
> > Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C
> > ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books
> > about Ada in Italian on print.
> > But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I
> > ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two
> > years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1
> > Month ago)...
> > Ciao,
> >    Enrico B.A.
> 
> Living standard is high in the US and almost 1/3 of your salary go to
> your taxes. Each state has different tax rates. You should find out
> regarding taxes, living expenses, rental, etc. US$4000-US$6000 a month
> is merely enough for one to survive. I hope you have got more than
> this figure. You should also find out more about health care (health
> care is very expensive in US) and health insurance. You should have
> insurance to cover the health care for you, your wive and your child.
> 

Well, this is a very broad generalization.  There are areas in the US
where cost of living is beyond belief (well almost).  There are other
desirable locations that have very low cost of living.  In my case, I
live in a state with no income taxes and fairly low property taxes.  
Still, I could move back to rural Indiana and live a very good life on
the above income (actually preferable to where I live now, but I'd have
difficulty making as much) .

> But Ada jobs usually pay high in US even you are not working for
> Millitary or so.
> 
> This is just my opinion and for the sake of the archive, so you should
> find out from your friends or relatives (if any) living in US.
> 
>                                        -- Adrian Hoe
>                                        -- http://adrianhoe.com


-- 

Gary Scott
mailto:scottg@flash.net

mailto:webmaster@fortranlib.com
http://www.fortranlib.com

Support the GNU Fortran G95 Project:  http://g95.sourceforge.net

Re: Ada?

[Ted Dennison]

Dan Andreatta <andreatta@mail.chem.sc.edu.REMOVEME> wrote in message news:<Xns91D6AD7FA7588andreattamailchemsce@12.252.202.62>...
> Dunno in IT, but in chemistry/physics/others you have to be a citizen or a 
> foreign national to work in a national lab (like Livermore or Los Alamos). 
> A visa is not enough (B, J, whatever). Of course, you need clearance.

Well, I should be a bit more specific and say that being a US citizen
is *not* a requirement for getting a clearance. However, there are a
lot of classified jobs that are also "noforn" (no foriegn nationals).
I had one job where we had to stamp "noforn" on all documents,
printouts, and notes we made. Oddly, that was the one where I had 3
fellow developers who were born in communist countries though. :-)

As the above anecdote implies, one does not have to be US-born for
even the most classified of jobs. But becomming a citizen can take
many years (>10). However, this level of secrecy is not common, and
the lesser levels have little problem with foriegn workers. I've only
worked on 3 jobs that required clearances, and the one above was the
only one where I actually had to handle classified material. Perhaps
some government agencies have trouble with foriegn nationals (I
wouldn't know), but most of the action is with the contractors anyway.
:-)

The biggest worry I'd have for someone comming over here to work would
be the "green card servitude" issue. Getting your green card can take
quite a while (my lebaneese coworker was waiting for 14 years), and
you are only allowed to be here in the meantime if you are working for
someone. That makes for great leverage for your employer, since if the
mood strikes them they can fire you, then call INS and have you
deported (since you aren't working for anyone any more). Some
companies are moral and restrain themselves from abusing this power,
but not all of them. I've heard some real horror stories.

-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Ada?

[Marin David Condic]

You're right - this isn't the forum for politics.

a) Not all Ada jobs in the USA are in defense/government related projects -
hence its up to the company in question as to whether or not they want to
hire a foreign national & up to INS, et alia, to decide if you can get into
the country and legally work.

b) Not all defense/government related work that may be done in Ada is going
to be classified, or classified at a level that precludes foreign nationals
from holding those jobs. Hence, go back to "a" above.

c) Some defense/government related work *is* going to be done at a
classification level that precludes foreign nationals even if they do have
work permits from INS, permenent resident status, etc. (Try getting a job as
an airline baggage handler without citizenship these days. :-)

d) Not all Ada work is done in the USA - in fact there might be reasons to
suspect that Ada is more popular outside the US than in the land of its
birth. So don't preclude the possibility of looking for Ada work wherever
you live.

e) In countries where Free Enterprise is not against the law, it is always
possible to invent your own job. If you like working in Ada and have some
notion of how you could create a business that would do that, you might be
quite successful & have a job working with Ada at that point. You can do
that in any place where you can identify a need & go about filling it. (BTW:
If the object of the game is to get into the US, rather than simply to
program in Ada, this is one method of gaining entry. That is to say,
bringing a business into the US - or partnering in a business, etc.)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Adrian Hoe" <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message
news:3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com...
> Ted Dennison wrote:
> >
> >
> > The fact of the matter is that the USA is a *nation* of immigrants.
> > Anyone who thinks we are somehow "against" the rest of the world
> > doesn't really appreciate the situation.
>
>
> I know, I know... This isn't the right place to talk about politics
> here. But since Ted has posted his view, I just would like to comment.
> :)
>
> Ted is right that USA is a land of freedom and a nation of immigrants.
> There are many opportunities there if one is willing to leave his home
> and come to USA! I think everyone in this world appreciate this
> situation but disagree on USA political base.
>
> I have many many friends in USA, and that includes Americans, Jamaicans,
> Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
>
> I had got a consulting job (doing Ada) in USA couple years back but I
> did not take up the offer simply because it took too much hassle to get
> a working visa. But that did not stop me doing Ada. With my free spirit
> roaming and the current trend of globalization and with the Internet,
> the world is equivalent, I think.
> --
>                                        -- Adrian Hoe
>                                        -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:58:04 -0700, Jerry Petrey wrote:
><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
><html>

Turn OFF html when you post on usenet.

-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Ted Dennison]

Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
> Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)

Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
either side of yours.

I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
countries asking their views of America. To no one's great suprise,
the overwhelming majority view was unfavorable. However, I was shocked
to see that there was always at least a %20 favorable rating. While
far from a majority, that's a significant portion of the populace. It
shows that you can't really tar a whole country with having a single
political view. There's diversity everywhere you look.

-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Ada?

[Adrian Hoe]

Marin David Condic wrote:
> 
> You're right - this isn't the forum for politics.
> 
> a) Not all Ada jobs in the USA are in defense/government related projects -
> hence its up to the company in question as to whether or not they want to
> hire a foreign national & up to INS, et alia, to decide if you can get into
> the country and legally work.
> 
> b) Not all defense/government related work that may be done in Ada is going
> to be classified, or classified at a level that precludes foreign nationals
> from holding those jobs. Hence, go back to "a" above.
> 
> c) Some defense/government related work *is* going to be done at a
> classification level that precludes foreign nationals even if they do have
> work permits from INS, permenent resident status, etc. (Try getting a job as
> an airline baggage handler without citizenship these days. :-)


After 9/11, it is harder to apply for visiting Visa and not to mention
working Visa.



> d) Not all Ada work is done in the USA - in fact there might be reasons to
> suspect that Ada is more popular outside the US than in the land of its
> birth. So don't preclude the possibility of looking for Ada work wherever
> you live.


You can find Ada work in China, Vietname, Singapore(?), Japan, Korea,
Honk Kong and India (countries from the far east). Oh yes... Malaysia. I
have colleagues that spin off joint-ventures between our company and
China companies (using Ada), and this is (e). We can see that Ada has
gained more acceptance in certain area of the industries in the far
east.



> e) In countries where Free Enterprise is not against the law, it is always
> possible to invent your own job. If you like working in Ada and have some
> notion of how you could create a business that would do that, you might be
> quite successful & have a job working with Ada at that point. You can do
> that in any place where you can identify a need & go about filling it. (BTW:
> If the object of the game is to get into the US, rather than simply to
> program in Ada, this is one method of gaining entry. That is to say,
> bringing a business into the US - or partnering in a business, etc.)
> 
> MDC
> --
> Marin David Condic

-- 
Remove *nospam* to e-mail me.          -- Adrian Hoe
                                       -- http://adrianhoe.com

Re: Ada?

[Richard Riehle]

Adrian Hoe wrote:

> You can find Ada work in China, Vietname, Singapore(?), Japan, Korea,
> Honk Kong and India (countries from the far east). Oh yes... Malaysia. I
> have colleagues that spin off joint-ventures between our company and
> China companies (using Ada), and this is (e). We can see that Ada has
> gained more acceptance in certain area of the industries in the far
> east.

Also, Turkey, Iran, and Australia.   And I am getting positive feedback on
my little booklet, Ada Distilled, from places I never expected.

Richard Riehle

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Christoph Grein]

From: dennison@telepath.com
> Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message 
news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
> > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
> 
> Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
> isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
> one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
> politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
> either side of yours.
> 
> I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
> countries asking their views of America.

America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other 
countries on this continent!

US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we 
in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling 
forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Reinert Korsnes]

Christoph Grein wrote:

> From: dennison@telepath.com
>> Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message
> news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
>> > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
>> > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
>> > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
>> 
>> Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
>> isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
>> one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
>> politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
>> either side of yours.
>> 
>> I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
>> countries asking their views of America.
> 
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30
> other countries on this continent!
> 
> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world.
> Even we in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this
> disease by feeling forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

I am a human - which is another name for Norwegian citizen :-)

reinert

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Ted Dennison]

Christoph Grein <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>...
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other 
> countries on this continent!
2 Continents, you mean.

> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we 
> in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling 
> forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Don't read too much into that. "America" in this case is a very
natural shortening of "United States of America". You are right that
some variants on that form could also be taken as referring to the
entire western hemisphere ("The Americas"). But, as I'm sure you are
more aware than most native speakers, English is full of ambiguous
words. Listeners are expected to pick up which sense is meant from
context, and in this case that's rarely difficult. Its indicitive of
our English penchant for short synonyms, not of any ignorance about
our hemispheric neighbors.

Seing as a tremendous proportion of our immigrants come from this
hemisphere, it would be a tough ignorance to maintain. In Texas,
Califonia, and Florida the support of Latinos is crutial for winning
any statewide election. Those happen to also be 3 of our biggest 4
states. It would be exeedingly difficult to get elected president
without winning any of them.

Note that USA isn't a unique designator either. There is a city in
Japan by that name. :-)


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Christoph Grein" <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
> From: dennison@telepath.com
> > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message
> news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
> > > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> > > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> > > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
> >
> > Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
> > isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
> > one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
> > politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
> > either side of yours.
> >
> > I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
> > countries asking their views of America.
>
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> countries on this continent!
>
> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we
> in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by
feeling
> forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Hang on.  That's much too broad.  Clearly, you must base your conclusion on the
population of US citizens that you have encountered, and just as clearly, that
cannot be all US citizens.

For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
Europe :-).

Now, I admit we Texans do have this view you describe -- not of the US, of
course, but of Texas!  :-)

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> Europe :-).

Huh? What continent is UK part of?

-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Jim Rogers]

Preben Randhol wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> 
>>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
>>Europe :-).
>>
> 
> Huh? What continent is UK part of?


Politically or geographically?

Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU.

Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of
North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as
part of Europe.

Jim Rogers

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message
news:slrna9msj3.1r3.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> > Europe :-).
>
> Huh? What continent is UK part of?

The English people that I know (at least some of them) would say that Europe is
"over there", meaning "The Continent".

Hence the smiley.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Jim Rogers" <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C9B7394.3040607@worldnet.att.net...
> Preben Randhol wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> >
> >>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> >>Europe :-).
> >>
> >
> > Huh? What continent is UK part of?
>
>
> Politically or geographically?
>
> Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU.
>
> Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of
> North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as
> part of Europe.

I needed more smiley's.  I know people, who are natives of England, who would
say that the UK is not part of Europe.  Europe is "over there".  They would be
grinning when they said it.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Darren New]

Christoph Grein wrote:
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> countries on this continent!

Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-)

-- 
Darren New 
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
      Remember, drive defensively if you drink.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:34:37 GMT, Darren New wrote:
> Christoph Grein wrote:
>> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
>> countries on this continent!
> 
> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you

Which United States ? ;-) 


-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Larry Hazel]

Darren New wrote:
> 
> Christoph Grein wrote:
> > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> > countries on this continent!
> 
> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
> mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-)
> 
I just told them I am from Alabama.

Larry